From doris.behrendt at me.com  Sun Jul  3 09:33:48 2022
From: doris.behrendt at me.com (Doris Behrendt)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 15:33:48 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Lualatexmk
Message-ID: <DE119D63-ACC4-48CC-A916-DD60D7326C28@me.com>

Hi everyone,

I?m in the middle of setting up a new Mac, installed MacTeX, wanted to move lualatexmk.enginge from inactive to active ... and wonder where lualatexmk.engine is gone? Most of the time I?m using arara and external editor vi anyway, so it?s not really important, I just wondered ...

Doris

From murrayeisenberg at gmail.com  Sun Jul  3 10:33:32 2022
From: murrayeisenberg at gmail.com (Murray Eisenberg)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:33:32 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Lualatexmk
In-Reply-To: <DE119D63-ACC4-48CC-A916-DD60D7326C28@me.com>
References: <DE119D63-ACC4-48CC-A916-DD60D7326C28@me.com>
Message-ID: <458D8A89-996F-4B66-9B1A-2EF8DA5C76D8@gmail.com>

I find lualatexmk.engine in ~/Library/TeXShop/Engines/Inactive/Latexmk.

> On 3 Jul2022, at 9:33 AM, Doris Behrendt via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I?m in the middle of setting up a new Mac, installed MacTeX, wanted to move lualatexmk.enginge from inactive to active ... and wonder where lualatexmk.engine is gone? Most of the time I?m using arara and external editor vi anyway, so it?s not really important, I just wondered ...
> 
> Doris
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

---
Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
Mobile (413)-427-5334
503 King Farm Blvd #101		
Rockville, MD 20850-6667	




From doris.behrendt at me.com  Sun Jul  3 11:06:32 2022
From: doris.behrendt at me.com (Doris Behrendt)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 17:06:32 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Lualatexmk
In-Reply-To: <458D8A89-996F-4B66-9B1A-2EF8DA5C76D8@gmail.com>
References: <DE119D63-ACC4-48CC-A916-DD60D7326C28@me.com>
 <458D8A89-996F-4B66-9B1A-2EF8DA5C76D8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82EC47EE-F6F8-460D-A053-0FD7C5CBAECC@me.com>

Hi Murray,

thanks, I just didn?t realise that Latexmk was a folder and not a file ;-)

Doris

> On 3. Jul 2022, at 16:33, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I find lualatexmk.engine in ~/Library/TeXShop/Engines/Inactive/Latexmk.
> 
>> On 3 Jul2022, at 9:33 AM, Doris Behrendt via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I?m in the middle of setting up a new Mac, installed MacTeX, wanted to move lualatexmk.enginge from inactive to active ... and wonder where lualatexmk.engine is gone? Most of the time I?m using arara and external editor vi anyway, so it?s not really important, I just wondered ...
>> 
>> Doris
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> 
> ---
> Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> 503 King Farm Blvd #101		
> Rockville, MD 20850-6667	
> 
> 
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex


From gratzer at mac.com  Tue Jul  5 12:39:23 2022
From: gratzer at mac.com (George Gratzer)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 12:39:23 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Index generation
Message-ID: <B889AFDB-E8AB-421F-8AF0-698A7CE3D5D2@mac.com>

Creating an Index for test.tex:

Step 1. Add 
 
\usepackage{makeidx}
  \makeindex
and 			
\printindex


to test.tex and add the index commands.

Step 2. Typeset test.tex with makeindex replacing LaTeX.

This produces the test.idx file.

3. Run makeindex on test.idx.

Here is my question!!! What is the easiest way to do this in TeXShop???

GG
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From murrayeisenberg at gmail.com  Tue Jul  5 13:39:15 2022
From: murrayeisenberg at gmail.com (Murray Eisenberg)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 13:39:15 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Index generation
In-Reply-To: <B889AFDB-E8AB-421F-8AF0-698A7CE3D5D2@mac.com>
References: <B889AFDB-E8AB-421F-8AF0-698A7CE3D5D2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <EB25BDA7-99B6-4A06-93DB-125AF2FCB8B3@gmail.com>



> On 5 Jul2022, at 12:39 PM, George Gratzer via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Creating an Index for test.tex:
> 
> Step 1. Add 
>  
> \usepackage{makeidx}
>   \makeindex
> and 			
> \printindex
> 
> 
> to test.tex and add the index commands.
> 
> Step 2. Typeset test.tex with makeindex replacing LaTeX.
> 
> This produces the test.idx file.
> 
> 3. Run makeindex on test.idx.
> 
> Here is my question!!! What is the easiest way to do this in TeXShop???
> 

For Step 2, simply choosing makeindex from the typesetting menu and then clicking the Typeset button should do it. BUT? that assumes you have already Typeset with the LaTeX selection form the drop-down Typeset menu. (Running LaTeX first writes the .idx file that makeindex needs to do its work.)

But you may want instead to choose pdflatexmk from the drop-down menu and then click the Typeset button: that will create the needed .idx, run makeindex, then run LaTeX again to typeset the index in the document.


---
Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
Mobile (413)-427-5334
503 King Farm Blvd #101		
Rockville, MD 20850-6667	



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From mh at michael-hoppe.de  Tue Jul  5 14:52:31 2022
From: mh at michael-hoppe.de (Michael Hoppe)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 20:52:31 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
Message-ID: <E1AA01D6-7E0A-4881-9C4A-B598C14DE250@michael-hoppe.de>

Dear TeXers,

pdf(la)tex is using only one core on my Intel-Mac.  Is there a version which uses more cores?

Mike

From lfsequeira at gmail.com  Tue Jul  5 15:09:02 2022
From: lfsequeira at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Lu=C3=ADs_Sequeira?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 20:09:02 +0100
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
Message-ID: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>


pdflatex is a single threaded program and I believe that other tex engines, xelatex and lualatex, are too.
The processing of a latex file is pretty much sequential anyway, so it is hard to see how multithreading might help in this case. If someone has a different understanding of this, I would like to learn about it.

> Dear TeXers,
> 
> pdf(la)tex is using only one core on my Intel-Mac.  Is there a version which uses more cores?

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

From listwatch at moss.in-berlin.de  Wed Jul  6 01:54:38 2022
From: listwatch at moss.in-berlin.de (Martin Wilhelm Leidig)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 07:54:38 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Index generation
In-Reply-To: <B889AFDB-E8AB-421F-8AF0-698A7CE3D5D2@mac.com>
References: <B889AFDB-E8AB-421F-8AF0-698A7CE3D5D2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4C3DCAF9-407F-4BFE-BA4B-0DA4A3C6E686@moss.in-berlin.de>

Am 22-07-05 um 18.39 schrieb George Gratzer via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu>:
> 
> What is the easiest way to do this in TeXShop???

Latexmk.


? mit freundlichem Gru?:

-Moss-
--
Martin Wilhelm Leidig	Dante #1580
Twitter @TeXniker (TeX- und Dante-Kram), @Moss_the_TeXie2 (Kram)

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From jfine2358 at gmail.com  Wed Jul  6 06:00:29 2022
From: jfine2358 at gmail.com (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:00:29 +0100
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALD=Yf95+VH6tzh=yt4N5QX9YYidz_QqZ+d69ugMxciq=sWXEg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Lu?s Sequeira wrote:

> pdflatex is a single threaded program and I believe that other tex
> engines, xelatex and lualatex, are too.
>


> The processing of a latex file is pretty much sequential anyway, so it is
> hard to see how multithreading might help in this case. If someone has a
> different understanding of this, I would like to learn about it.
>

I'll look at the question both narrowly, as clearly stated by Lu?s, and
broadly in terms of LaTeX responding more quickly to typesetting requests.

Don Knuth's TeX introduced dvi (DeVice Independent) files as an
intermediate between typesetting and rendering. (Take this as a definition
of typesetting and rendering.)  I've read that XeTeX retains this
distinction. This division between the two allows the typesetting to be
piped to the rendering, which allows two cores to be used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XeTeX#Mode_of_operation

LaTeX requires multiple runs to resolve generated text such as equation and
page numbers, and also the index. These intermediate runs are usually
performed by a script, and no human being looks at the intermediate PDF
files generated by pdflatex.

If rendering is separate from typesetting then it can be omitted from the
intermediate runs. This will speed matters up, particularly if the document
being typeset has much graphics. Even without separation a speedup is
achieved if graphics are rendered as grey boxes on all but the script's
final run of pdflatex.

If typesetting can be done chapter by chapter, a separate core can be used
to process each chapter. This is fairly straightforward for the
typesetting. For rendering to PDF multiple cores can still be used,
followed by a tool that will concatenate the resulting PDF files.

Most of the above is I believe possible with pdflatex as it is, or with
only minor changes. More extensive changes will allow authors to be
provided with an even more rapid edit-typeset-preview loop.

Worth looking at here is David Platt's statement: You [developers] think
your users want to use your software. They do not want to use your
software.  They want to have used your software.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAOTTLQ0rlY
https://www.joyofux.com/

wishing you rapid texing

Jonathan
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From jfine2358 at gmail.com  Wed Jul  6 10:05:30 2022
From: jfine2358 at gmail.com (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 15:05:30 +0100
Subject: [OS X TeX] TeX Hour: 7, 14,
 21 July: Open Space: TeX + ICM 2022 meetings, software doc'n
In-Reply-To: <CALD=Yf-e4RMFHK4RA8Kc1VY_FNHuse5BvBY-S-wEEu96AyQW=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALD=Yf8gLqYqsJSLoC5-cp2esNgvYxfoqtAXavcabNcf9pLVTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALD=Yf-e4RMFHK4RA8Kc1VY_FNHuse5BvBY-S-wEEu96AyQW=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALD=Yf-yZ87X4J3z7Z7OE6Cwv67CsMQJ_JR5ZCG0jLsYRbfUtg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

The TeX Hour for the next three weeks (Thursday 7, 14 and 21 July) will be
an Open Space. All  are welcome, especially from beginners and outsiders. I
hope to hold further Open Space meetings on Accessibility later this year.

TeX Hour: Open Space: Thursday 7, 14, 21 July, 6:30 to 7:30pm UK time.
Zoom URL:
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09
UK Time Now: https://time.is/UK.

Here are my links for the Open Hours. But your contributions will get
priority (if you wish).

TeX Conference
=============
The 2022 TeX Conference is July 22 to 24 July. https://tug.org/tug2022/.
Registration (free or donation) is still open.

International Congress of Mathematicians
================================
The 2022 International Congress of Mathematicians is happening right now.
The ICM was due to be held in St Petersburg, Russia. At short notice it's
been replaced by an online conference, with in-person events in Finland.
This enormous step will influence mathematical communication for many years.

The prizes were announced yesterday (in Finland, and streamed on YouTube).

https://www.mathunion.org/imu-awards/fields-medal/fields-medals-2022
https://www.mathunion.org/imu-awards/leelavati-prize/leelavati-prize-2022
https://www.mathunion.org/imu-awards/chern-medal-award/chern-medal-award-2022
https://www.mathunion.org/imu-awards/imu-abacus-medal/abacus-medal-2022
https://www.mathunion.org/imu-awards/carl-friedrich-gauss-prize/carl-friedrich-gauss-prize-2022

 Anything related to the ICM is welcome at the Open Space. I've a special
interest in the mathematics of June Huh, who was awarded the first Fields
Medal for combinatorics.
https://www.mathunion.org/fileadmin/IMU/Prizes/Fields/2022/JH_FM.pdf
https://youtu.be/HJvb7aQcIXo

The ICM awarded a Fields Medal to Maryna Viazovska, Ukraine. The second
woman, after Maryam Mirzakhani, to get this prize.
https://www.mathunion.org/fileadmin/IMU/Prizes/Fields/2022/MV_FM.pdf
https://youtu.be/yAyuipqM5uQ

The Leelavati Prize (public awareness) went to Nikolai Andreev, Russia.
https://www.mathunion.org/fileadmin/IMU/Prizes/Leelavati/IMU_LeelavatiPrize22_citation.pdf
https://youtu.be/L10LHSVswR0

Case studies of software documentation
===============================
Examples include:

https://docs.alpinelinux.org/user-handbook/0.1a/index.html
https://docs.julialang.org/en/v1/
https://www.latex-project.org/help/documentation/
https://numpy.org/doc/stable/
https://docs.python.org/3/

with best wishes

Jonathan
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From gratzer at me.com  Wed Jul  6 19:05:00 2022
From: gratzer at me.com (George Gratzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:05:00 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>

Seriously, how long TeX-ing takes?

BTW, how can I clock how long TeX-ing takes. Too fast to use a stopwatch.

> On Jul 5, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Lu?s Sequeira <lfsequeira at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> pdflatex is a single threaded program and I believe that other tex engines, xelatex and lualatex, are too.
> The processing of a latex file is pretty much sequential anyway, so it is hard to see how multithreading might help in this case. If someone has a different understanding of this, I would like to learn about it.
> 
>> Dear TeXers,
>> 
>> pdf(la)tex is using only one core on my Intel-Mac.  Is there a version which uses more cores?
> 
> Mike
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex


From murrayeisenberg at gmail.com  Wed Jul  6 19:10:35 2022
From: murrayeisenberg at gmail.com (Murray Eisenberg)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:10:35 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
 <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
Message-ID: <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>

Not so fast at all ? minutes for me ? when I?m pdflatexmk?ing a 600+page book with table of contents, nomenclature, bibliography, and index where it takes something like 5 or 6 latex runs among the executions of makeindex and biber to get all references resolved.

> On 6 Jul2022, at 7:05 PM, George Gratzer via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Seriously, how long TeX-ing takes?
> 
> BTW, how can I clock how long TeX-ing takes. Too fast to use a stopwatch.
> 
>> On Jul 5, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Lu?s Sequeira <lfsequeira at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> pdflatex is a single threaded program and I believe that other tex engines, xelatex and lualatex, are too.
>> The processing of a latex file is pretty much sequential anyway, so it is hard to see how multithreading might help in this case. If someone has a different understanding of this, I would like to learn about it.
>> 
>>> Dear TeXers,
>>> 
>>> pdf(la)tex is using only one core on my Intel-Mac.  Is there a version which uses more cores?
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

---
Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
Mobile (413)-427-5334
503 King Farm Blvd #101		
Rockville, MD 20850-6667	




From gratzer at me.com  Wed Jul  6 19:21:04 2022
From: gratzer at me.com (George Gratzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:21:04 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
 <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
 <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <914721A1-16BB-44D0-ADB7-0D25D4D13F89@me.com>

Murray,

Still, how do you time it?

I have just finished a 44 page long book. To typeset it takes about 4-5 secs. Hundreds of illustrations, 2 tocs, index.

With pdflatexmk, after deleting all the aux files, less than 15 secs. I use makeindex.

I trult believe that you reeky messed up something.

My computer is fast, Apple Studio with an M1 Max chip, I do not believe that this makes much difference.

GG

> On Jul 6, 2022, at 7:10 PM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Not so fast at all ? minutes for me ? when I?m pdflatexmk?ing a 600+page book with table of contents, nomenclature, bibliography, and index where it takes something like 5 or 6 latex runs among the executions of makeindex and biber to get all references resolved.
> 
>> On 6 Jul2022, at 7:05 PM, George Gratzer via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Seriously, how long TeX-ing takes?
>> 
>> BTW, how can I clock how long TeX-ing takes. Too fast to use a stopwatch.
>> 
>>> On Jul 5, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Lu?s Sequeira <lfsequeira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> pdflatex is a single threaded program and I believe that other tex engines, xelatex and lualatex, are too.
>>> The processing of a latex file is pretty much sequential anyway, so it is hard to see how multithreading might help in this case. If someone has a different understanding of this, I would like to learn about it.
>>> 
>>>> Dear TeXers,
>>>> 
>>>> pdf(la)tex is using only one core on my Intel-Mac.  Is there a version which uses more cores?
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>>              https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> 
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> 
> ---
> Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> 503 King Farm Blvd #101		
> Rockville, MD 20850-6667	
> 
> 
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex


From murrayeisenberg at gmail.com  Wed Jul  6 20:38:38 2022
From: murrayeisenberg at gmail.com (Murray Eisenberg)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:38:38 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <914721A1-16BB-44D0-ADB7-0D25D4D13F89@me.com>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
 <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
 <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>
 <914721A1-16BB-44D0-ADB7-0D25D4D13F89@me.com>
Message-ID: <A2286027-4E70-4A77-85DE-62CD8D1C6F6C@gmail.com>

Given that a complete pdflatexmk run takes several minutes on my iMac, timing with sufficient precision is easy: 

	(1) run the following shell file ?now.sh??

		#! /bin/bash
		today=$(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M-%S)
		echo $today% 

	(2) immediately press the TeXShop Typeset button

	(3) as soon as I see in the console that execution of pdflatexmk has completed, run that same shell command again

	(4) subtract the time given by (1) from the time given by (3)

> On 6 Jul2022, at 7:21 PM, George Gratzer via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Murray,
> 
> Still, how do you time it?
> 
> I have just finished a 44 page long book. To typeset it takes about 4-5 secs. Hundreds of illustrations, 2 tocs, index.
> 
> With pdflatexmk, after deleting all the aux files, less than 15 secs. I use makeindex.
> 
> I trult believe that you reeky messed up something.
> 
> My computer is fast, Apple Studio with an M1 Max chip, I do not believe that this makes much difference.
> 
> GG
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2022, at 7:10 PM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not so fast at all ? minutes for me ? when I?m pdflatexmk?ing a 600+page book with table of contents, nomenclature, bibliography, and index where it takes something like 5 or 6 latex runs among the executions of makeindex and biber to get all references resolved.
>> 
>>> On 6 Jul2022, at 7:05 PM, George Gratzer via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Seriously, how long TeX-ing takes?
>>> 
>>> BTW, how can I clock how long TeX-ing takes. Too fast to use a stopwatch.
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 5, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Lu?s Sequeira <lfsequeira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> pdflatex is a single threaded program and I believe that other tex engines, xelatex and lualatex, are too.
>>>> The processing of a latex file is pretty much sequential anyway, so it is hard to see how multithreading might help in this case. If someone has a different understanding of this, I would like to learn about it.
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear TeXers,
>>>>> 
>>>>> pdf(la)tex is using only one core on my Intel-Mac.  Is there a version which uses more cores?
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>>>             https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>>> 
>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>>              https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> 
>> ---
>> Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
>> Mobile (413)-427-5334
>> 503 King Farm Blvd #101		
>> Rockville, MD 20850-6667	
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

---
Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
Mobile (413)-427-5334
503 King Farm Blvd #101		
Rockville, MD 20850-6667	




From koch at uoregon.edu  Wed Jul  6 22:31:02 2022
From: koch at uoregon.edu (Richard Koch)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 02:31:02 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <A2286027-4E70-4A77-85DE-62CD8D1C6F6C@gmail.com>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
 <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
 <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>
 <914721A1-16BB-44D0-ADB7-0D25D4D13F89@me.com>
 <A2286027-4E70-4A77-85DE-62CD8D1C6F6C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59D7330D-0DDF-4B8B-A1A4-81BB144ED08C@uoregon.edu>

Folks,

Let me chime in. I wrote a set of notes on group representations 440 pages long. The notes have many illustrationss. I don't use pdflatexmk, so I typeset once.

To time this, I go to the date and time at the right of the menu bar and select the Cupertino clock, which I leave up. I start typesetting when the second hand reaches 12 and look at the clock when typesetting ends to see how long it took. 

My notes typeset in 10 seconds. If I add the word "draft" to /documentclass, the typesetting time drops to 3 seconds. 

If you have a document of roughly this length which takes much longer to typeset, I suspect that you have very fancy illustrations. 

Why not adjust your typesetting method to the task at hand? If you are writing a section where illustrations don't matter, use pdflatex rather than pdflatexmk and use draft mode. If you are writing at a spot where illustrations are important, use pdflatex but remove draft mode. If you are working on indices and such, use pdflatexmk. I don't know if draft mode interferes with indices; if not, you can speed up the task by using draft mode at that point.

For fairly short documents, use your favorite engine, say pdflatexmk.  If you have a long manuscript, you can make the process less frustrating by adjusting  your typesetting engine to the task at hand at the moment.

Warning: I'm not a sophisticated user.

Dick Koch 





From gratzer at me.com  Wed Jul  6 22:49:10 2022
From: gratzer at me.com (George Gratzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 22:49:10 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <59D7330D-0DDF-4B8B-A1A4-81BB144ED08C@uoregon.edu>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
 <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
 <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>
 <914721A1-16BB-44D0-ADB7-0D25D4D13F89@me.com>
 <A2286027-4E70-4A77-85DE-62CD8D1C6F6C@gmail.com>
 <59D7330D-0DDF-4B8B-A1A4-81BB144ED08C@uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <1B8D1C77-8B1A-4135-B516-E673AFE8E44A@me.com>

Dick,

Not sophisticated but smart.

I used the RK method. I deleted all auxiliary files (index, pdflatemk, and the usual ones).

All the runs took exactly 15 sec RK time. Single run is 5 secs RK time.

George

> On Jul 6, 2022, at 10:31 PM, Richard Koch <koch at uoregon.edu> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> Let me chime in. I wrote a set of notes on group representations 440 pages long. The notes have many illustrationss. I don't use pdflatexmk, so I typeset once.
> 
> To time this, I go to the date and time at the right of the menu bar and select the Cupertino clock, which I leave up. I start typesetting when the second hand reaches 12 and look at the clock when typesetting ends to see how long it took. 
> 
> My notes typeset in 10 seconds. If I add the word "draft" to /documentclass, the typesetting time drops to 3 seconds. 
> 
> If you have a document of roughly this length which takes much longer to typeset, I suspect that you have very fancy illustrations. 
> 
> Why not adjust your typesetting method to the task at hand? If you are writing a section where illustrations don't matter, use pdflatex rather than pdflatexmk and use draft mode. If you are writing at a spot where illustrations are important, use pdflatex but remove draft mode. If you are working on indices and such, use pdflatexmk. I don't know if draft mode interferes with indices; if not, you can speed up the task by using draft mode at that point.
> 
> For fairly short documents, use your favorite engine, say pdflatexmk.  If you have a long manuscript, you can make the process less frustrating by adjusting  your typesetting engine to the task at hand at the moment.
> 
> Warning: I'm not a sophisticated user.
> 
> Dick Koch 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex


From denis.bitouze at univ-littoral.fr  Thu Jul  7 02:43:37 2022
From: denis.bitouze at univ-littoral.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Denis_Bitouz=C3=A9?=)
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2022 08:43:37 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <A2286027-4E70-4A77-85DE-62CD8D1C6F6C@gmail.com> (Murray
 Eisenberg's message of "Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:38:38 -0400")
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
 <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
 <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>
 <914721A1-16BB-44D0-ADB7-0D25D4D13F89@me.com>
 <A2286027-4E70-4A77-85DE-62CD8D1C6F6C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87czehh17q.fsf@example.com>

Le 06/07/22 ? 20h38, Murray Eisenberg a ?crit :

> Given that a complete pdflatexmk run takes several minutes on my iMac,
> timing with sufficient precision is easy:
>
> 	(1) run the following shell file ?now.sh??
>
> 		#! /bin/bash
> 		today=$(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M-%S)
> 		echo $today% 
>
> 	(2) immediately press the TeXShop Typeset button
>
> 	(3) as soon as I see in the console that execution of pdflatexmk has completed, run that same shell command again
>
> 	(4) subtract the time given by (1) from the time given by (3)

On GNU/Linux (and maybe on macOS), it is enough to prepend the `latexmk`
command by `time`. For instance, for a rather complex `beamer`
document of mine:

  ?????
  ? $ time latexmk presentation
  ? [...]
  ? 394,41s user 96,46s system 98% cpu 8:16,95 total
  ?????
-- 
Denis

From ealdrov at math.fsu.edu  Thu Jul  7 09:16:45 2022
From: ealdrov at math.fsu.edu (Ettore Aldrovandi)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:16:45 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <87czehh17q.fsf@example.com>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
 <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
 <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>
 <914721A1-16BB-44D0-ADB7-0D25D4D13F89@me.com>
 <A2286027-4E70-4A77-85DE-62CD8D1C6F6C@gmail.com> <87czehh17q.fsf@example.com>
Message-ID: <9452CE60-871F-44A1-87B8-743810F69B1C@math.fsu.edu>



> On Jul 7, 2022, at 02:43, Denis Bitouz? <denis.bitouze at univ-littoral.fr> wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
> On GNU/Linux (and maybe on macOS), it is enough to prepend the `latexmk`
> command by `time`. For instance, for a rather complex `beamer`
> document of mine:
> 
> ?????
> ? $ time latexmk presentation
> ? [...]
> ? 394,41s user 96,46s system 98% cpu 8:16,95 total
> ?????
> -- 
> Denis

That works (and of course it does on macOS too) if your run latexmk from the terminal. The users are mentioning they are running it via TeXshop. 

?Ettore

Ettore Aldrovandi
Department of Mathematics, Florida State University
1017 Academic Way
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4510, USA
https://www.math.fsu.edu/~ealdrov

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From herbs2 at mac.com  Thu Jul  7 09:28:44 2022
From: herbs2 at mac.com (Herbert Schulz)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 08:28:44 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <9452CE60-871F-44A1-87B8-743810F69B1C@math.fsu.edu>
References: <E5669783-A400-4421-B1D7-55AB33D63B9D@gmail.com>
 <7C9DC96A-FB9F-4A61-B82A-B3098ED8D066@me.com>
 <9667B10D-654F-4FC9-86CC-37B1B9BC2DFF@gmail.com>
 <914721A1-16BB-44D0-ADB7-0D25D4D13F89@me.com>
 <A2286027-4E70-4A77-85DE-62CD8D1C6F6C@gmail.com> <87czehh17q.fsf@example.com>
 <9452CE60-871F-44A1-87B8-743810F69B1C@math.fsu.edu>
Message-ID: <738A0459-C0B3-44A0-BDCA-9B12E3544955@mac.com>



> On Jul 7, 2022, at 8:16 AM, Ettore Aldrovandi <ealdrov at math.fsu.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2022, at 02:43, Denis Bitouz? <denis.bitouze at univ-littoral.fr> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> On GNU/Linux (and maybe on macOS), it is enough to prepend the `latexmk`
>> command by `time`. For instance, for a rather complex `beamer`
>> document of mine:
>> 
>> ?????
>> ? $ time latexmk presentation
>> ? [...]
>> ? 394,41s user 96,46s system 98% cpu 8:16,95 total
>> ?????
>> -- 
>> Denis
> 
> That works (and of course it does on macOS too) if your run latexmk from the terminal. The users are mentioning they are running it via TeXshop. 
> 
> ?Ettore
> 
> Ettore Aldrovandi
> Department of Mathematics, Florida State University
> 1017 Academic Way
> Tallahassee, FL 32306-4510, USA
> https://www.math.fsu.edu/~ealdrov
> 

Howdy,

Of course you could edit the (pdf/lua/xe)latexmk engine file.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
herbs2 at mac.com



From koch at uoregon.edu  Thu Jul  7 15:36:44 2022
From: koch at uoregon.edu (Richard Koch)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 19:36:44 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] TeXShop 4.77
Message-ID: <D638A722-B6DB-4A9C-B1B2-6684E412F3C2@uoregon.edu>

Folks,

TeXShop 4.77, which fixes a bug which can crash the program, is available via the Sparkle update mechanism and from

https://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/texshop.html

Richard Koch
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From ugroh at icloud.com  Fri Jul  8 08:31:31 2022
From: ugroh at icloud.com (Ulrich Groh)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 14:31:31 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <738A0459-C0B3-44A0-BDCA-9B12E3544955@mac.com>
References: <738A0459-C0B3-44A0-BDCA-9B12E3544955@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AD871667-5EBD-4D9C-9534-CAFB4E8FD6D6@icloud.com>


I don?t understand this type of discussions. To write x pages of math text last y minutes. To compile the document last z minutes . In general, y is very, very large and z is very, very small compared to y. So: What is the problem? 

Ulrich

From herbs2 at mac.com  Fri Jul  8 09:38:05 2022
From: herbs2 at mac.com (Herbert Schulz)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 08:38:05 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] Mulicores?
In-Reply-To: <AD871667-5EBD-4D9C-9534-CAFB4E8FD6D6@icloud.com>
References: <738A0459-C0B3-44A0-BDCA-9B12E3544955@mac.com>
 <AD871667-5EBD-4D9C-9534-CAFB4E8FD6D6@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1F40520A-B6EF-47D6-AFE3-A67C438ECDD1@mac.com>



> On Jul 8, 2022, at 7:31 AM, Ulrich Groh via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> I don?t understand this type of discussions. To write x pages of math text last y minutes. To compile the document last z minutes . In general, y is very, very large and z is very, very small compared to y. So: What is the problem? 
> 
> Ulrich

Howdy,

I go back to a time when typesetting a document on a microcomputer took about 1min/page so I am amazed at the speed of our present systems. That extra minute or two or three gives you time to think about your document and can often be more productive than the rush to do this or that.

PS: Humans are really bad at multi-tasking.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
herbs2 at mac.com



From murrayeisenberg at gmail.com  Sat Jul  9 11:46:25 2022
From: murrayeisenberg at gmail.com (Murray Eisenberg)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 11:46:25 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
Message-ID: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>

The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink. 

This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.

What PDF viewers are there ? at least for Mac but for Windows and Linux, too ? that have the same capability?

I note that Adobe Acrobat Reader (at least the Mac version) does _not_ include this capability; nor does the macOS Preview app.

---
Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
Mobile (413)-427-5334
503 King Farm Blvd #101		
Rockville, MD 20850-6667	




From koch at uoregon.edu  Sat Jul  9 12:02:49 2022
From: koch at uoregon.edu (Richard Koch)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 16:02:49 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5FB325AF-0015-495B-A49B-081AF8EC1A36@uoregon.edu>

Murray,

I believe Skim has this feature. In fact, the user who requested it in TeXShop referred me to Skim. 

Dick Koch

> On Jul 9, 2022, at 8:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink. 
> 
> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
> 
> What PDF viewers are there ? at least for Mac but for Windows and Linux, too ? that have the same capability?
> 
> I note that Adobe Acrobat Reader (at least the Mac version) does _not_ include this capability; nor does the macOS Preview app.
> 
> ---
> Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> 503 King Farm Blvd #101		
> Rockville, MD 20850-6667	
> 
> 
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex


From herbs2 at mac.com  Sat Jul  9 12:08:51 2022
From: herbs2 at mac.com (Herbert Schulz)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 11:08:51 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>



> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink. 
> 
> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.

Howdy,

Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).

> 
> What PDF viewers are there ? at least for Mac but for Windows and Linux, too ? that have the same capability?
> 
> I note that Adobe Acrobat Reader (at least the Mac version) does _not_ include this capability; nor does the macOS Preview app.
> 
> ---
> Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> 503 King Farm Blvd #101		
> Rockville, MD 20850-6667	

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs2 at mac dot com)


From murrayeisenberg at gmail.com  Sat Jul  9 13:02:17 2022
From: murrayeisenberg at gmail.com (Murray Eisenberg)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 13:02:17 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD1C7F96-796C-4179-88C1-CD860ABF5051@gmail.com>

On 9 Jul2022, at 11:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink. 
> 
> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
> 
> What PDF viewers are there ? at least for Mac but for Windows and Linux, too ? that have the same capability?
> 
> I note that Adobe Acrobat Reader (at least the Mac version) does _not_ include this capability; nor does the macOS Preview app.
> 

I forgot to note that Skim has that feature. Unfortunately it works only on macOS.

---
Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
Mobile (413)-427-5334
503 King Farm Blvd #101		
Rockville, MD 20850-6667	




From murrayeisenberg at gmail.com  Sat Jul  9 13:07:35 2022
From: murrayeisenberg at gmail.com (Murray Eisenberg)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 13:07:35 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>



> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com <mailto:murrayeisenberg at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink. 
>> 
>> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
> 


If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I?m asking about.

I?m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.

For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).

I?m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop ? viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
---
Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
Mobile (413)-427-5334
503 King Farm Blvd #101		
Rockville, MD 20850-6667	



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From denis.bitouze at univ-littoral.fr  Sat Jul  9 13:26:58 2022
From: denis.bitouze at univ-littoral.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Denis_Bitouz=C3=A9?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2022 19:26:58 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com> (Murray
 Eisenberg's message of "Sat, 9 Jul 2022 11:46:25 -0400")
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <878rp28ae5.fsf@example.com>

Le 09/07/22 ? 11h46, Murray Eisenberg a ?crit :

> What PDF viewers are there ? at least for Mac but for Windows and
> Linux, too ? that have the same capability?

On GNU/Linux, Evince has the same capability.
-- 
Denis

From rl.stpuu at gmail.com  Sun Jul 10 07:25:47 2022
From: rl.stpuu at gmail.com (Roussanka Loukanova)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 13:25:47 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Murray, Hi everybody,




On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 7:07 PM Murray Eisenberg
<murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink.
>
> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
>

> Howdy,
>
> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
>

Skim has the same feature, including, after having jumped to the
hyperlinked page, to return back to the spot of the hyperlink. This is
very useful to quickly check math displays (equations, etc.)

There is a difference between TexShop pdf preview and Skim:

- In Skim, on my 13" screen:
The pop-up target, a small window, displays only portions of the math
displays. Typically, the left-hand portion of a math display is cut
off. This makes it of little use, in many cases, actually almost
always. Thus, I have to jump to the target page to see the full math
display.
The small pop-up window shows the right-hand side of the math display,
in full, including its tag / number.
It is very useful that the font size of the math, in the pop-up
window, is sufficiently large to see clearly the math symbols of the
visible portion.

- In TexShop pdf display:
The pop-up small window shows almost the entire math display. I guess,
this is achieved by the tiny font-size of the math display in the
small pop-up window,  to fit in. But, it's also shifted, so that the
right-hand side of the equation tag / number is cut off and not shown,
while the left-hand side margin is shown, which is empty space.

The major difference:

In Skim:
the font-size is usefully large, but the math display is cut-off, and
I can see only a portion of it.

In TexShop:
the tiny font-size allows me to see almost the entire math display
(except the right-hand tag / number), but it is too small to see
details of the math symbols. It shows the empty left margin, which is
a waste of space.

I guess these differences are related to the scale of the pdf display,
and the screen size.

On a very old MacBook Air 13", that is how I see the pop-up small windows.

At one point, I wrote to Christian of Skim about this problem. But I
have not been able to figure out whether that can be adjusted, e.g.,
in the preferences, etc. settings, or if it's part of settings in the
software of the pdf display.

Best Regards,
Roussanka

> If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I?m asking about.
>
> I?m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.
>
> For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).
>
> I?m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop ? viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
> ---
> Murray Eisenberg murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> 503 King Farm Blvd #101
> Rockville, MD 20850-6667
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                 https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

From lists.gms at gmail.com  Sun Jul 10 09:24:10 2022
From: lists.gms at gmail.com (G. M.-S.)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:24:10 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] opentype-info.tex not working
Message-ID: <CANnG1897X4xMqsVDLJeQ0Na9jPCBK00ZjwCRJMi=_mQDakaidA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello.

Following instructions in
/usr/local/texlive/2022/texmf-dist/doc/latex/fontspec/fontspec.pdf
I am trying to compile
/usr/local/texlive/2022/texmf-dist/tex/xetex/xetexfontinfo/opentype-info.tex

However, using it "as is", with
*\def\myfontname{Latin Modern Roman}*
I get
This is XeTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-0.999994 (TeX Live 2022) (preloaded
format=xetex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
(./opentype-info.tex
./opentype-info.tex:27: Font \testfont="Latin Modern Roman/ICU" at 12.0pt
not l
oadable: Metric (TFM) file or installed font not found.
l.27 \font\testfont="\myfontname/ICU" at 12pt

?
[1] )
Output written on opentype-info.pdf (1 page).
SyncTeX written on opentype-info.synctex.gz.
Transcript written on opentype-info.log.
and a PDF with


*OpenType Layout features found in ?Latin Modern Roman?None*

Now, with
*\def\myfontname{NewCM10-Book.otf}*
(which is what I am interested in)
I get
This is XeTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-0.999994 (TeX Live 2022) (preloaded
format=xetex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
(./opentype-info2.tex
kpathsea: Running mktextfm NewCM10-Book.otf/ICU
/usr/local/texlive/2022/texmf-dist/web2c/mktexnam: Could not map source
abbreviation I for ICU.
/usr/local/texlive/2022/texmf-dist/web2c/mktexnam: Need to update
/usr/local/texlive/2022/texmf-dist/fonts/map/fontname/special.map?
mktextfm: Running mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; ;
nonstopmode; input ICU
This is METAFONT, Version 2.71828182 (TeX Live 2022) (preloaded base=mf)

kpathsea: Running mktexmf ICU

! I can't find file `ICU'.
<*> ...e:=ljfour; mag:=1; ; nonstopmode; input ICU

Please type another input file name
! Emergency stop.
<*> ...e:=ljfour; mag:=1; ; nonstopmode; input ICU

Transcript written on mfput.log.
grep: ICU.log: No such file or directory
mktextfm: `mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; ; nonstopmode;
input ICU' failed to make ICU.tfm.
kpathsea: Appending font creation commands to missfont.log.

./opentype-info2.tex:27: Font \testfont=NewCM10-Book.otf/ICU at 12.0pt not
load
able: Metric (TFM) file or installed font not found.
l.27 \font\testfont="\myfontname/ICU" at 12pt

?
[1] )
Output written on opentype-info2.pdf (1 page).
SyncTeX written on opentype-info2.synctex.gz.
Transcript written on opentype-info2.log.
and a PDF with


*OpenType Layout features found in ?NewCM10-Book.otf?None*

What am I doing wrong?

Guillermo
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From schremmer.alain at freemathtexts.org  Sun Jul 10 12:52:55 2022
From: schremmer.alain at freemathtexts.org (Alain Schremmer)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:52:55 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Beyond split view: two pages
Message-ID: <48520A75-26AD-4421-8E4D-F39623D7C142@freemathtexts.org>

To insure consistency in the magnum opus, I use a lot the split page feature of TeXShop in both the source and the pdf.

I am still on TeXShop 4.64 because I hate having to put up with changes I don?t think I need, but I sure wish TeXShop would go one step beyond the split view and be able to have more than just one window for each of the source and the pdf. (Screens are now large and cheap.)

In any case, best, grateful regards,
?schremmer


From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 10 13:18:48 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:18:48 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>

I?ve also found the hyperlink pop-ups less than completely satisfactory on both Skim and TeXShop. I usually use this feature for quickly reviewing the lemma or proposition or whatever the link is referring to, and it often cuts the text off on the right (in my case) and also on the bottom if the text of the lemma or whatever has more than a few lines. I?m still using a 1080p (<4K) monitor.

Skim does have an additional tool though. (I use single page view, and I?m not sure how this works with a double page view). If you hover the cursor over the link long enough for the pop-up to appear and then do a command-click on the link, Skim displays off to the side a window of a full page width view of the lemma or whatever, but only maybe ten lines long, and it?s scrollable vertically. Then I can examine the text on both pages side by side and determine whether or not, for example, the lemma really does imply what I said it does. The one thing that annoys me about this though is that I first have to wait for the pop-up to appear. If I command-click before the popup appears, a tiny useless window pops up. I believe that at one time I used to be able to do a command-click before the pop-up appeared and it worked properly, but at some point it stopped working properly.

Richard S?guin

> On Jul 10, 2022, at 6:25 AM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Murray, Hi everybody,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 7:07 PM Murray Eisenberg
> <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink.
>> 
>> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
>> 
> 
>> Howdy,
>> 
>> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
>> 
> 
> Skim has the same feature, including, after having jumped to the
> hyperlinked page, to return back to the spot of the hyperlink. This is
> very useful to quickly check math displays (equations, etc.)
> 
> There is a difference between TexShop pdf preview and Skim:
> 
> - In Skim, on my 13" screen:
> The pop-up target, a small window, displays only portions of the math
> displays. Typically, the left-hand portion of a math display is cut
> off. This makes it of little use, in many cases, actually almost
> always. Thus, I have to jump to the target page to see the full math
> display.
> The small pop-up window shows the right-hand side of the math display,
> in full, including its tag / number.
> It is very useful that the font size of the math, in the pop-up
> window, is sufficiently large to see clearly the math symbols of the
> visible portion.
> 
> - In TexShop pdf display:
> The pop-up small window shows almost the entire math display. I guess,
> this is achieved by the tiny font-size of the math display in the
> small pop-up window,  to fit in. But, it's also shifted, so that the
> right-hand side of the equation tag / number is cut off and not shown,
> while the left-hand side margin is shown, which is empty space.
> 
> The major difference:
> 
> In Skim:
> the font-size is usefully large, but the math display is cut-off, and
> I can see only a portion of it.
> 
> In TexShop:
> the tiny font-size allows me to see almost the entire math display
> (except the right-hand tag / number), but it is too small to see
> details of the math symbols. It shows the empty left margin, which is
> a waste of space.
> 
> I guess these differences are related to the scale of the pdf display,
> and the screen size.
> 
> On a very old MacBook Air 13", that is how I see the pop-up small windows.
> 
> At one point, I wrote to Christian of Skim about this problem. But I
> have not been able to figure out whether that can be adjusted, e.g.,
> in the preferences, etc. settings, or if it's part of settings in the
> software of the pdf display.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Roussanka
> 
>> If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I?m asking about.
>> 
>> I?m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.
>> 
>> For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).
>> 
>> I?m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop ? viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
>> ---
>> Murray Eisenberg murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
>> Mobile (413)-427-5334
>> 503 King Farm Blvd #101
>> Rockville, MD 20850-6667
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex


From rl.stpuu at gmail.com  Sun Jul 10 15:36:54 2022
From: rl.stpuu at gmail.com (Roussanka Loukanova)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 21:36:54 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard,
...

> Skim does have an additional tool though. (I use single page view, and I?m not sure how this works with a double page view). If you hover the cursor over the link long enough for the pop-up to appear and then do a command-click on the link, Skim displays off to the side a window of a full page width view of the lemma or whatever, but only maybe ten lines long, and it?s scrollable vertically. Then I can examine the text on both pages side by side and determine whether or not, for example, the lemma really does imply what I said it does.

This is great! I had seen this side window many times before, by
accidentally hitting  some keys in some rush typing. Now, I know that
this is by cmd+click and what it is!

In this side window:

- I can scroll through the entire pdf in it
- I can resize it
- From the top menu bar of Skim, I can:
PDF > Zoom In / Zoom Out, alternatively, I can use:
 cmd + / cmd -
- It is a 2nd window display of the same pdf. (Up to now, I have tried
many times, without success, how to bring in a 2nd window display of
the same pdf, in Skim, and in Preview)
- I do not know how to Toggle the ToolBar on its upper part. But, this
may be good, to distinguish this "side window" from the primary one.

> The one thing that annoys me about this though is that I first have to wait for the pop-up to appear. If I command-click before the popup appears, a tiny useless window pops up. I believe that at one time I used to be able to do a command-click before the pop-up appeared and it worked properly, but at some point it stopped working properly.

With my Skim (Version 1.6.11 (141)), the side window appears without
waiting for the small pop-up window, just by:

cmd+click
- I get a side window, full width, 7-8 lines
- I get a 3rd, 4th, 5th (I haven?t tried for more cmd+click :-)

This is an excellent feature - thanks Christian, hoping you read this,
and will try to do something with the pop-up small window, to get the
entire math display displayed in it.

Richard, thanks for telling us about it.

Dick, now TexShop should get this feature as well.

>
> Richard S?guin
>
> > On Jul 10, 2022, at 6:25 AM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Murray, Hi everybody,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 7:07 PM Murray Eisenberg
> > <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink.
> >>
> >> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
> >>
> >
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
> >>
> >
> > Skim has the same feature, including, after having jumped to the
> > hyperlinked page, to return back to the spot of the hyperlink. This is
> > very useful to quickly check math displays (equations, etc.)
> >
> > There is a difference between TexShop pdf preview and Skim:
> >
> > - In Skim, on my 13" screen:
> > The pop-up target, a small window, displays only portions of the math
> > displays. Typically, the left-hand portion of a math display is cut
> > off. This makes it of little use, in many cases, actually almost
> > always. Thus, I have to jump to the target page to see the full math
> > display.
> > The small pop-up window shows the right-hand side of the math display,
> > in full, including its tag / number.
> > It is very useful that the font size of the math, in the pop-up
> > window, is sufficiently large to see clearly the math symbols of the
> > visible portion.
> >
> > - In TexShop pdf display:
> > The pop-up small window shows almost the entire math display. I guess,
> > this is achieved by the tiny font-size of the math display in the
> > small pop-up window,  to fit in. But, it's also shifted, so that the
> > right-hand side of the equation tag / number is cut off and not shown,
> > while the left-hand side margin is shown, which is empty space.
> >
> > The major difference:
> >
> > In Skim:
> > the font-size is usefully large, but the math display is cut-off, and
> > I can see only a portion of it.
> >
> > In TexShop:
> > the tiny font-size allows me to see almost the entire math display
> > (except the right-hand tag / number), but it is too small to see
> > details of the math symbols. It shows the empty left margin, which is
> > a waste of space.
> >
> > I guess these differences are related to the scale of the pdf display,
> > and the screen size.
> >
> > On a very old MacBook Air 13", that is how I see the pop-up small windows.
> >
> > At one point, I wrote to Christian of Skim about this problem. But I
> > have not been able to figure out whether that can be adjusted, e.g.,
> > in the preferences, etc. settings, or if it's part of settings in the
> > software of the pdf display.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Roussanka
> >
> >> If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I?m asking about.
> >>
> >> I?m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.
> >>
> >> For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).
> >>
> >> I?m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop ? viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
> >> ---
> >> Murray Eisenberg murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> >> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> >> 503 King Farm Blvd #101
> >> Rockville, MD 20850-6667
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> >> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> >> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> >> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> >>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> >> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> >> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> > List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> >                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                 https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

From koch at uoregon.edu  Sun Jul 10 16:16:29 2022
From: koch at uoregon.edu (Richard Koch)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 20:16:29 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F2D9B0EC-D857-452C-B5C5-D10D315501CA@uoregon.edu>

Folks,

I haven't looked at Skim recently and I don't know what the "second window" is all about. Will take a look.

But maybe I should point out that you can already get two views of a complete source document, and two views of a complete pdf preview in TeXShop. If you hold down the option key whiloe splitting a window, it splits horizontally rather than vertically. Resize the window so both pieces are regular size and you've got two complete views.

Dick Koch



From rl.stpuu at gmail.com  Sun Jul 10 16:52:32 2022
From: rl.stpuu at gmail.com (Roussanka Loukanova)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 22:52:32 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <F2D9B0EC-D857-452C-B5C5-D10D315501CA@uoregon.edu>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <F2D9B0EC-D857-452C-B5C5-D10D315501CA@uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <CACAe74jjiSk2wiswcdV4VdTftkiCzZw7VfcVmbXO=MaM3720nA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dick,

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:16 PM Richard Koch <koch at uoregon.edu> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I haven't looked at Skim recently and I don't know what the "second window" is all about. Will take a look.
>
> But maybe I should point out that you can already get two views of a complete source document, and two views of a complete pdf preview in TeXShop. If you hold down the option key whiloe splitting a window, it splits horizontally rather than vertically. Resize the window so both pieces are regular size and you've got two complete views.

Yes, I get it. It's a very nice feature too. But this is a single
splitted window, in two kinds (horizontally and vertically).

Skim has Split Window only horizontally:
View > Show Split PDF (toggle split PDF via: alt+cmd+P)

But the side window in Skim is a different feature: separate, side
window(s) to display the same pdf, via:
- hover the cursor over a local hyperlink
- cmd+click (while the pointer is over the link, with or without the
small pop-up window)
- Skim opens a side window, full width, about 7 lines; resix?zable, etc.

It is bound to hyperlinks, as far as I can get it, in parallel with
the small pop-up window. The latter, the small pop-up, is also
available in TexShop, but not the side window(s).

I think it would be good if you can make a 2nd separate window to show
the same pdf, if possible not necessarily bound to the local
hyperlinks.

Christian, hopefully, you read this: a 2nd window of the same pdf,
separately from being bound to local hyperlinks.

Best Regards,
Roussanka

>
> Dick Koch
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                 https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

From schremmer.alain at freemathtexts.org  Sun Jul 10 19:48:13 2022
From: schremmer.alain at freemathtexts.org (Alain Schremmer)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 19:48:13 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <F2D9B0EC-D857-452C-B5C5-D10D315501CA@uoregon.edu>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <F2D9B0EC-D857-452C-B5C5-D10D315501CA@uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <3AF89436-1485-4D3C-9053-8FE5DA3F9144@freemathtexts.org>



> On Jul 10, 2022, at 16:16, Richard Koch <koch at uoregon.edu> wrote:
> 
> But maybe I should point out that you can already get two views of a complete source document, and two views of a complete pdf preview in TeXShop. If you hold down the option key whiloe splitting a window, it splits horizontally rather than vertically. Resize the window so both pieces are regular size and you've got two complete views.
> 
> Dick Koch


I just tried it and it works just as I wanted---except for the two views being glued together! (Customers are never happy, particularly non-paying ones.)

Also, it might be nice to have the option to freeze which pdf view is tied to which source view. (I tend to forget which I have designated by clicking.) But that would of course be total icing on the cake.

So, again, my infinite gratitude for TeXShop 4.64 
?schremmer

P. S. By the way, my request had nothing to do with the discussion started by Eisenberg as I just want hyperref links to get me there, which they do.


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From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 10 19:51:18 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 18:51:18 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05C1E04A-AC09-492F-B211-1899A821AA90@earthlink.net>

Hello Roussanka,

I?ve just done a little more investigation. If I?m in a 200 page document, I always have to wait until the pop-up appears before I command-click; otherwise I get the tiny mutant window. If I?m in a 50 page document, I can often command-click just before the time when the pop-up would appear and get the second window in the form I want. If I command-click immediately after hovering over the link with the cursor, I get the tiny mutant window. I wonder if this is a timing issue ? for example, maybe something must happen in the code between the time when you hover over the link and you command-click in order for it to work correctly. I have an older Mac Mini with a 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7 and a not very fast GPU; maybe the machine is just too slow. It takes a second or two just for the pop-up to appear in both Skim and TeXShop.

Richard

> On Jul 10, 2022, at 2:36 PM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Richard,
> ...
> 
>> Skim does have an additional tool though. (I use single page view, and I?m not sure how this works with a double page view). If you hover the cursor over the link long enough for the pop-up to appear and then do a command-click on the link, Skim displays off to the side a window of a full page width view of the lemma or whatever, but only maybe ten lines long, and it?s scrollable vertically. Then I can examine the text on both pages side by side and determine whether or not, for example, the lemma really does imply what I said it does.
> 
> This is great! I had seen this side window many times before, by
> accidentally hitting  some keys in some rush typing. Now, I know that
> this is by cmd+click and what it is!
> 
> In this side window:
> 
> - I can scroll through the entire pdf in it
> - I can resize it
> - From the top menu bar of Skim, I can:
> PDF > Zoom In / Zoom Out, alternatively, I can use:
> cmd + / cmd -
> - It is a 2nd window display of the same pdf. (Up to now, I have tried
> many times, without success, how to bring in a 2nd window display of
> the same pdf, in Skim, and in Preview)
> - I do not know how to Toggle the ToolBar on its upper part. But, this
> may be good, to distinguish this "side window" from the primary one.
> 
>> The one thing that annoys me about this though is that I first have to wait for the pop-up to appear. If I command-click before the popup appears, a tiny useless window pops up. I believe that at one time I used to be able to do a command-click before the pop-up appeared and it worked properly, but at some point it stopped working properly.
> 
> With my Skim (Version 1.6.11 (141)), the side window appears without
> waiting for the small pop-up window, just by:
> 
> cmd+click
> - I get a side window, full width, 7-8 lines
> - I get a 3rd, 4th, 5th (I haven?t tried for more cmd+click :-)
> 
> This is an excellent feature - thanks Christian, hoping you read this,
> and will try to do something with the pop-up small window, to get the
> entire math display displayed in it.
> 
> Richard, thanks for telling us about it.
> 
> Dick, now TexShop should get this feature as well.
> 
>> 
>> Richard S?guin
>> 
>>> On Jul 10, 2022, at 6:25 AM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Murray, Hi everybody,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 7:07 PM Murray Eisenberg
>>> <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink.
>>>> 
>>>> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Howdy,
>>>> 
>>>> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Skim has the same feature, including, after having jumped to the
>>> hyperlinked page, to return back to the spot of the hyperlink. This is
>>> very useful to quickly check math displays (equations, etc.)
>>> 
>>> There is a difference between TexShop pdf preview and Skim:
>>> 
>>> - In Skim, on my 13" screen:
>>> The pop-up target, a small window, displays only portions of the math
>>> displays. Typically, the left-hand portion of a math display is cut
>>> off. This makes it of little use, in many cases, actually almost
>>> always. Thus, I have to jump to the target page to see the full math
>>> display.
>>> The small pop-up window shows the right-hand side of the math display,
>>> in full, including its tag / number.
>>> It is very useful that the font size of the math, in the pop-up
>>> window, is sufficiently large to see clearly the math symbols of the
>>> visible portion.
>>> 
>>> - In TexShop pdf display:
>>> The pop-up small window shows almost the entire math display. I guess,
>>> this is achieved by the tiny font-size of the math display in the
>>> small pop-up window,  to fit in. But, it's also shifted, so that the
>>> right-hand side of the equation tag / number is cut off and not shown,
>>> while the left-hand side margin is shown, which is empty space.
>>> 
>>> The major difference:
>>> 
>>> In Skim:
>>> the font-size is usefully large, but the math display is cut-off, and
>>> I can see only a portion of it.
>>> 
>>> In TexShop:
>>> the tiny font-size allows me to see almost the entire math display
>>> (except the right-hand tag / number), but it is too small to see
>>> details of the math symbols. It shows the empty left margin, which is
>>> a waste of space.
>>> 
>>> I guess these differences are related to the scale of the pdf display,
>>> and the screen size.
>>> 
>>> On a very old MacBook Air 13", that is how I see the pop-up small windows.
>>> 
>>> At one point, I wrote to Christian of Skim about this problem. But I
>>> have not been able to figure out whether that can be adjusted, e.g.,
>>> in the preferences, etc. settings, or if it's part of settings in the
>>> software of the pdf display.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Roussanka
>>> 
>>>> If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I?m asking about.
>>>> 
>>>> I?m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.
>>>> 
>>>> For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).
>>>> 
>>>> I?m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop ? viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
>>>> ---
>>>> Murray Eisenberg murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
>>>> Mobile (413)-427-5334
>>>> 503 King Farm Blvd #101
>>>> Rockville, MD 20850-6667
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> 
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex


From david.salomon at csun.edu  Mon Jul 11 17:09:35 2022
From: david.salomon at csun.edu (Salomon, David)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 21:09:35 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] Installing CM fonts in OS 10.14 Mojave
Message-ID: <BYAPR07MB6375C4276091A4B32612F22286879@BYAPR07MB6375.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>


Greetings everyone,

After using OS 10.12 Sierra for several years, I have recently erased the internal SSD drive in my iMac 2019 and installed a fresh copy of OS 10.14 Mojave from the app store. I have also installed fresh copies of the applications and utilities I use.

I now face the task of downloading and installing the CM fonts, so that I could use them in TeX (I plan to use TeXpad, any comments?) as well as in other applications such as Adobe Illustrator and Microsoft Word.

I checked the fonts catalog at TUG:

https://tug.org/FontCatalogue/computermodern/

which sent me to:

https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/cm/

but there I got confused. There are too many types of CM fonts. I looked at the bakoma collection at

https://www.ctan.org/pkg/bakoma-fonts

and  it has both type1 and true-type fonts, but this collection seems old. I also don't know how to install those fonts. Just open them in "Font book"?

I have been using TeX (the old Textures implementation) since the mid 1980's, so I know how to use it, but installing fonts is new to me. Could someone point me in the right direction?

Best regards and thanks

David Salomon
dsalomon at csun.edu
http://www.davidsalomon.name/
(619) 443-6528
(619) 873-6742
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From jfenn at gmx.net  Mon Jul 11 18:15:50 2022
From: jfenn at gmx.net (Juergen Fenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 00:15:50 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Installing CM fonts in OS 10.14 Mojave
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR07MB6375C4276091A4B32612F22286879@BYAPR07MB6375.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BYAPR07MB6375C4276091A4B32612F22286879@BYAPR07MB6375.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <4d3fa85c-133b-9475-053a-1c881298bb15@gmx.net>



Am 11.07.22 um 23:09 Uhr schrieb Salomon, David:
>
> I now face the task of downloading and installing the CM fonts, so that
> I could use them in TeX (I plan to use TeXpad, any comments?) as well as
> in other applications such as Adobe Illustrator and Microsoft Word.


I've recently migrated to Monterey, installing the lm fonts for this
reason. I suggest you consider the
<https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/lm/> package. The lm fonts
succeeded the cm fonts, so you can use them as a replacement for cm. I
downloaded the zip file from CTAN and opened it (or just the /font
subdirectory, I don't remember, just take a look) in font book. That was
all there was to do.

Regards,
J?rgen.

From herbs2 at mac.com  Mon Jul 11 18:27:34 2022
From: herbs2 at mac.com (Herbert Schulz)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 18:27:34 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Installing CM fonts in OS 10.14 Mojave
In-Reply-To: <4d3fa85c-133b-9475-053a-1c881298bb15@gmx.net>
References: <4d3fa85c-133b-9475-053a-1c881298bb15@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <0B7B3E8A-A96E-4FF9-8501-06EBA64D0604@mac.com>

Howdy,

I guess I?m not sure I understand this thread. If you intend to use (pdf/lua/xe)latex you need a TeX distribution, either the one from TeXPad ( sorry, I know nothing about that) or another one (I suggest TeX Live installed via MacTeX). In either case the CM and Latin modern fonts are part of the distribution. 

Good Luck,
Herb Schulz


> On Jul 11, 2022, at 6:16 PM, Juergen Fenn <jfenn at gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
>> Am 11.07.22 um 23:09 Uhr schrieb Salomon, David:
>> 
>> I now face the task of downloading and installing the CM fonts, so that
>> I could use them in TeX (I plan to use TeXpad, any comments?) as well as
>> in other applications such as Adobe Illustrator and Microsoft Word.
> 
> 
> I've recently migrated to Monterey, installing the lm fonts for this
> reason. I suggest you consider the
> <https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/lm/> package. The lm fonts
> succeeded the cm fonts, so you can use them as a replacement for cm. I
> downloaded the zip file from CTAN and opened it (or just the /font
> subdirectory, I don't remember, just take a look) in font book. That was
> all there was to do.
> 
> Regards,
> J?rgen.
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
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From jfenn at gmx.net  Mon Jul 11 18:43:33 2022
From: jfenn at gmx.net (Juergen Fenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 00:43:33 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Installing CM fonts in OS 10.14 Mojave
In-Reply-To: <0B7B3E8A-A96E-4FF9-8501-06EBA64D0604@mac.com>
References: <4d3fa85c-133b-9475-053a-1c881298bb15@gmx.net>
 <0B7B3E8A-A96E-4FF9-8501-06EBA64D0604@mac.com>
Message-ID: <fede2759-7dcb-b5d2-4de1-6dbe17d3940f@gmx.net>



Am 12.07.22 um 00:27 Uhr schrieb Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX:
> I guess I?m not sure I understand this thread. If you intend to use
> (pdf/lua/xe)latex you need a TeX distribution, either the one from
> TeXPad ( sorry, I know nothing about that) or another one (I suggest
> TeX Live installed via MacTeX). In either case the CM and Latin
> modern fonts are part of the distribution.


That's what I wondered, too. But, then, the OP says:


>>> I now face the task of downloading and installing the CM fonts,
>>> so that I could use them in TeX (I plan to use TeXpad, any
>>> comments?) as well as in other applications such as Adobe
>>> Illustrator and Microsoft Word.

So he wants to install CM (or CM-like fonts, for that matter) for use
with other applications than TeX and friends.

Regards,
J?rgen.

From ealdrov at math.fsu.edu  Mon Jul 11 20:07:50 2022
From: ealdrov at math.fsu.edu (Ettore Aldrovandi)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 20:07:50 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Installing CM fonts in OS 10.14 Mojave
In-Reply-To: <fede2759-7dcb-b5d2-4de1-6dbe17d3940f@gmx.net>
References: <4d3fa85c-133b-9475-053a-1c881298bb15@gmx.net>
 <0B7B3E8A-A96E-4FF9-8501-06EBA64D0604@mac.com>
 <fede2759-7dcb-b5d2-4de1-6dbe17d3940f@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <34B7A9C8-444D-4805-82B7-96A20EF11980@math.fsu.edu>

On Jul 11, 2022, at 18:43, Juergen Fenn <jfenn at gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 12.07.22 um 00:27 Uhr schrieb Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX:
>> I guess I?m not sure I understand this thread. If you intend to use
>> (pdf/lua/xe)latex you need a TeX distribution, either the one from
>> TeXPad ( sorry, I know nothing about that) or another one (I suggest
>> TeX Live installed via MacTeX). In either case the CM and Latin
>> modern fonts are part of the distribution.
> 
> 
> That's what I wondered, too. But, then, the OP says:
> 
> 
>>>> I now face the task of downloading and installing the CM fonts,
>>>> so that I could use them in TeX (I plan to use TeXpad, any
>>>> comments?) as well as in other applications such as Adobe
>>>> Illustrator and Microsoft Word.
> 
> So he wants to install CM (or CM-like fonts, for that matter) for use
> with other applications than TeX and friends.
> 
> Regards,
> J?rgen.

Installing MacTeX would be easier, as Herb wrote. The fonts can then be made available to the system via FontBook.  Installing MacTeX may even provide an automated way to do this (I don?t use MacTeX, so I don?t know for sure).  But then again, I?m not sure  I completely understand the original question.

?Ettore


Ettore Aldrovandi
Department of Mathematics, Florida State University
1017 Academic Way
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4510, USA
https://www.math.fsu.edu/~ealdrov
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From rl.stpuu at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 16:19:55 2022
From: rl.stpuu at gmail.com (Roussanka Loukanova)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 22:19:55 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <05C1E04A-AC09-492F-B211-1899A821AA90@earthlink.net>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05C1E04A-AC09-492F-B211-1899A821AA90@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CACAe74h2+jJwUtE5pLjW_V989oDzsQjenVdtxhfXF1FWtcjawA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard,

Sorry for answering with  this delay.


On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 1:51 AM Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hello Roussanka,
>
> I?ve just done a little more investigation. If I?m in a 200 page document, I always have to wait until the pop-up appears before I command-click; otherwise I get the tiny mutant window. If I?m in a 50 page document, I can often command-click just before the time when the pop-up would appear and get the second window in the form I want. If I command-click immediately after hovering over the link with the cursor, I get the tiny mutant window.

I've tried it with a relatively large document of 152 pages. The
cmd+click quickly opens the side windows, without any need to wait for
the small pop-up. The number of the pages doesn't matter, e.g.,
cmd+click by hovering over the hyperlink on p.1 opens the pdf, in a
small side window, with about 7 lines, on the right spot on p.152.

> I wonder if this is a timing issue ? for example, maybe something must happen in the code between the time when you hover over the link and you command-click in order for it to work correctly.
> I have an older Mac Mini with a 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7 and a not very fast GPU; maybe the machine is just too slow. It takes a second or two just for the pop-up to appear in both Skim and TeXShop.
>

If there is such a time gap, it seems to me that it is in the PDFKit
(or whatever the software was called), not in the hyperlinks, nor in
Skim (TexShop). It may be that on your Mac it takes that time gap to
open the pdf of 200 (50) pages. The jump to the target spot shouldn't
be taking much if any time.

My MacBook Air is also very slow, but probably your processr is a
little bit slower for such a specific task.

The software (PDFKit?) shouldn't  be counting per se the number of
pages and going through the pages. I guess, the target locations of
the hyperlinks are computed and assigned to variables during latex-ing
compilation, and available directly for jumps to those locations. We
run latex a couple of times - for assignments of the target locations,
to be available directly.

My MacBook Air is also very slow, but probably yours is a little bit
slower for such specific task.

Dick of TeXShop and Christian of Skim probably know because they use
that software (PDFKit?) for the feature.

But I've found a limited capability of the 2nd side window, despite
that it has the entire pdf. Even if resized to a full page, I see
three limitations (as of now), or may be I do not know how to handle
them:

- I can't bring in  the Toolbar in the secondary window

- none of the items under Tool are active, i.e., I can't make any notes

- the hyperlinks do not work: If I hover the pointer of the cursor
over a link, the pointer turns into the small hand, and nothing
happens with clicks, i.e., there is no jump to the corresponding
hyperlinked locations

That is, it seems that the software (PdfKit?) doesn't have access to
the information about references, nor to the note tools.

Dick and Christian know more, for certain, e.g., after Dick works out
the feature, he may tell us why you get the time gap. Perhaps that is
just for opening the large pdf, on the respective page and line of the
hyperink.

Best Regards,
Roussanka

> Richard
>
> > On Jul 10, 2022, at 2:36 PM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Richard,
> > ...
> >
> >> Skim does have an additional tool though. (I use single page view, and I?m not sure how this works with a double page view). If you hover the cursor over the link long enough for the pop-up to appear and then do a command-click on the link, Skim displays off to the side a window of a full page width view of the lemma or whatever, but only maybe ten lines long, and it?s scrollable vertically. Then I can examine the text on both pages side by side and determine whether or not, for example, the lemma really does imply what I said it does.
> >
> > This is great! I had seen this side window many times before, by
> > accidentally hitting  some keys in some rush typing. Now, I know that
> > this is by cmd+click and what it is!
> >
> > In this side window:
> >
> > - I can scroll through the entire pdf in it
> > - I can resize it
> > - From the top menu bar of Skim, I can:
> > PDF > Zoom In / Zoom Out, alternatively, I can use:
> > cmd + / cmd -
> > - It is a 2nd window display of the same pdf. (Up to now, I have tried
> > many times, without success, how to bring in a 2nd window display of
> > the same pdf, in Skim, and in Preview)
> > - I do not know how to Toggle the ToolBar on its upper part. But, this
> > may be good, to distinguish this "side window" from the primary one.
> >
> >> The one thing that annoys me about this though is that I first have to wait for the pop-up to appear. If I command-click before the popup appears, a tiny useless window pops up. I believe that at one time I used to be able to do a command-click before the pop-up appeared and it worked properly, but at some point it stopped working properly.
> >
> > With my Skim (Version 1.6.11 (141)), the side window appears without
> > waiting for the small pop-up window, just by:
> >
> > cmd+click
> > - I get a side window, full width, 7-8 lines
> > - I get a 3rd, 4th, 5th (I haven?t tried for more cmd+click :-)
> >
> > This is an excellent feature - thanks Christian, hoping you read this,
> > and will try to do something with the pop-up small window, to get the
> > entire math display displayed in it.
> >
> > Richard, thanks for telling us about it.
> >
> > Dick, now TexShop should get this feature as well.
> >
> >>
> >> Richard S?guin
> >>
> >>> On Jul 10, 2022, at 6:25 AM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Murray, Hi everybody,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 7:07 PM Murray Eisenberg
> >>> <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink.
> >>>>
> >>>> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> Howdy,
> >>>>
> >>>> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Skim has the same feature, including, after having jumped to the
> >>> hyperlinked page, to return back to the spot of the hyperlink. This is
> >>> very useful to quickly check math displays (equations, etc.)
> >>>
> >>> There is a difference between TexShop pdf preview and Skim:
> >>>
> >>> - In Skim, on my 13" screen:
> >>> The pop-up target, a small window, displays only portions of the math
> >>> displays. Typically, the left-hand portion of a math display is cut
> >>> off. This makes it of little use, in many cases, actually almost
> >>> always. Thus, I have to jump to the target page to see the full math
> >>> display.
> >>> The small pop-up window shows the right-hand side of the math display,
> >>> in full, including its tag / number.
> >>> It is very useful that the font size of the math, in the pop-up
> >>> window, is sufficiently large to see clearly the math symbols of the
> >>> visible portion.
> >>>
> >>> - In TexShop pdf display:
> >>> The pop-up small window shows almost the entire math display. I guess,
> >>> this is achieved by the tiny font-size of the math display in the
> >>> small pop-up window,  to fit in. But, it's also shifted, so that the
> >>> right-hand side of the equation tag / number is cut off and not shown,
> >>> while the left-hand side margin is shown, which is empty space.
> >>>
> >>> The major difference:
> >>>
> >>> In Skim:
> >>> the font-size is usefully large, but the math display is cut-off, and
> >>> I can see only a portion of it.
> >>>
> >>> In TexShop:
> >>> the tiny font-size allows me to see almost the entire math display
> >>> (except the right-hand tag / number), but it is too small to see
> >>> details of the math symbols. It shows the empty left margin, which is
> >>> a waste of space.
> >>>
> >>> I guess these differences are related to the scale of the pdf display,
> >>> and the screen size.
> >>>
> >>> On a very old MacBook Air 13", that is how I see the pop-up small windows.
> >>>
> >>> At one point, I wrote to Christian of Skim about this problem. But I
> >>> have not been able to figure out whether that can be adjusted, e.g.,
> >>> in the preferences, etc. settings, or if it's part of settings in the
> >>> software of the pdf display.
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>> Roussanka
> >>>
> >>>> If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I?m asking about.
> >>>>
> >>>> I?m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.
> >>>>
> >>>> For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).
> >>>>
> >>>> I?m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop ? viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
> >>>> ---
> >>>> Murray Eisenberg murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> >>>> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> >>>> 503 King Farm Blvd #101
> >>>> Rockville, MD 20850-6667
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> >>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> >>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> >>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> >>>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> >>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> >>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> >>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> >>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> >>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> >>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> >>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> >>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >>
> >> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> >> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> >> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> >> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> >>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> >> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> >> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> > List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> >                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                 https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

From koch at uoregon.edu  Tue Jul 12 22:51:51 2022
From: koch at uoregon.edu (Richard Koch)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 02:51:51 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <CACAe74h2+jJwUtE5pLjW_V989oDzsQjenVdtxhfXF1FWtcjawA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05C1E04A-AC09-492F-B211-1899A821AA90@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74h2+jJwUtE5pLjW_V989oDzsQjenVdtxhfXF1FWtcjawA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C627F28-BC48-43D6-853E-30114BF489E5@uoregon.edu>

Folks,

I've read with interest the conversation on hyperref pop-ups. Many parts of the conversation were about other front ends, but a few remarks listed problems with TeXShop and I thought briefly about how to improve the experience while keeping the current design.

You can experiment with the result by downloading

https://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop478.zip

Read the Changes document to see what is different. This is a preliminary version of 4.78, which may not appear for several weeks because of other requested changes and bug fixes.

Richard Koch
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From jfine2358 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 15:25:03 2022
From: jfine2358 at gmail.com (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 20:25:03 +0100
Subject: [OS X TeX] TeX Hour: 14, 21 July: Open Space: TeX,
 PDF and technical documentation
In-Reply-To: <CALD=Yf9sNkp2wdi3X3rwjFqOw8N5mYnaz4-S+fNn_1EhK2xcxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67866235-5f4c-4009-acd0-bc424545fe91n@googlegroups.com>
 <CALD=Yf_Qwo55WeXADk6VA_8Hyzto7mcBspybS13t=h3Qs1J-nQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALD=Yf9sNkp2wdi3X3rwjFqOw8N5mYnaz4-S+fNn_1EhK2xcxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALD=Yf-fR90YJbgLnCNK_SWVq00EDGu1vcor5mQXVpiy1cY-iw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Tomorrow's TeX Hour will focus on TeX, PDF and technical documentation.

TeX Hour: Open Space: Thursday 14, 21 July, 6:30 to 7:30pm UK time.
Zoom URL:
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09
UK Time Now: https://time.is/UK.

We're fortunate to have Rohit Goswami as our special guest. Rohit is a
NumPy developer, and speaker at the 2022 TeX Conference. His talk there
will be the use of TeX in the NumPy Continuous Integration toolchain. Rohit
will be joining us from https://www.scipy2022.scipy.org/

All are welcome, especially beginners and outsiders.

Examples of software documentation
===============================
https://docs.alpinelinux.org/user-handbook/0.1a/index.html
https://docs.julialang.org/en/v1/
https://www.latex-project.org/help/documentation/
https://numpy.org/doc/stable/
https://docs.python.org/3/
https://procbuild.scipy.org/

The 2022 TeX Conference is July 22 to 24 July. https://tug.org/tug2022/.
Registration (free or donation) is still open.

with best wishes

Jonathan
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From rl.stpuu at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 16:40:27 2022
From: rl.stpuu at gmail.com (Roussanka Loukanova)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 22:40:27 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <CACAe74h2+jJwUtE5pLjW_V989oDzsQjenVdtxhfXF1FWtcjawA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05C1E04A-AC09-492F-B211-1899A821AA90@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74h2+jJwUtE5pLjW_V989oDzsQjenVdtxhfXF1FWtcjawA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACAe74hsH6q3-wkK3YZm5s0ez=4VLDs3Tz6HR9WUqhawXxNRHA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard (Sequin),

I think it would be good if you write to the Skim mailing list and
describe the problem with the side window (cmd+click), on your Mac:

Skim-app-users mailing list
Skim-app-users at lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/skim-app-users

Best Regards,
Roussanka


On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 10:19 PM Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Sorry for answering with  this delay.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 1:51 AM Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Roussanka,
> >
> > I?ve just done a little more investigation. If I?m in a 200 page document, I always have to wait until the pop-up appears before I command-click; otherwise I get the tiny mutant window. If I?m in a 50 page document, I can often command-click just before the time when the pop-up would appear and get the second window in the form I want. If I command-click immediately after hovering over the link with the cursor, I get the tiny mutant window.
>
> I've tried it with a relatively large document of 152 pages. The
> cmd+click quickly opens the side windows, without any need to wait for
> the small pop-up. The number of the pages doesn't matter, e.g.,
> cmd+click by hovering over the hyperlink on p.1 opens the pdf, in a
> small side window, with about 7 lines, on the right spot on p.152.
>
> > I wonder if this is a timing issue ? for example, maybe something must happen in the code between the time when you hover over the link and you command-click in order for it to work correctly.
> > I have an older Mac Mini with a 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7 and a not very fast GPU; maybe the machine is just too slow. It takes a second or two just for the pop-up to appear in both Skim and TeXShop.
> >
>
> If there is such a time gap, it seems to me that it is in the PDFKit
> (or whatever the software was called), not in the hyperlinks, nor in
> Skim (TexShop). It may be that on your Mac it takes that time gap to
> open the pdf of 200 (50) pages. The jump to the target spot shouldn't
> be taking much if any time.
>
> My MacBook Air is also very slow, but probably your processr is a
> little bit slower for such a specific task.
>
> The software (PDFKit?) shouldn't  be counting per se the number of
> pages and going through the pages. I guess, the target locations of
> the hyperlinks are computed and assigned to variables during latex-ing
> compilation, and available directly for jumps to those locations. We
> run latex a couple of times - for assignments of the target locations,
> to be available directly.
>
> My MacBook Air is also very slow, but probably yours is a little bit
> slower for such specific task.
>
> Dick of TeXShop and Christian of Skim probably know because they use
> that software (PDFKit?) for the feature.
>
> But I've found a limited capability of the 2nd side window, despite
> that it has the entire pdf. Even if resized to a full page, I see
> three limitations (as of now), or may be I do not know how to handle
> them:
>
> - I can't bring in  the Toolbar in the secondary window
>
> - none of the items under Tool are active, i.e., I can't make any notes
>
> - the hyperlinks do not work: If I hover the pointer of the cursor
> over a link, the pointer turns into the small hand, and nothing
> happens with clicks, i.e., there is no jump to the corresponding
> hyperlinked locations
>
> That is, it seems that the software (PdfKit?) doesn't have access to
> the information about references, nor to the note tools.
>
> Dick and Christian know more, for certain, e.g., after Dick works out
> the feature, he may tell us why you get the time gap. Perhaps that is
> just for opening the large pdf, on the respective page and line of the
> hyperink.
>
> Best Regards,
> Roussanka
>
> > Richard
> >
> > > On Jul 10, 2022, at 2:36 PM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Richard,
> > > ...
> > >
> > >> Skim does have an additional tool though. (I use single page view, and I?m not sure how this works with a double page view). If you hover the cursor over the link long enough for the pop-up to appear and then do a command-click on the link, Skim displays off to the side a window of a full page width view of the lemma or whatever, but only maybe ten lines long, and it?s scrollable vertically. Then I can examine the text on both pages side by side and determine whether or not, for example, the lemma really does imply what I said it does.
> > >
> > > This is great! I had seen this side window many times before, by
> > > accidentally hitting  some keys in some rush typing. Now, I know that
> > > this is by cmd+click and what it is!
> > >
> > > In this side window:
> > >
> > > - I can scroll through the entire pdf in it
> > > - I can resize it
> > > - From the top menu bar of Skim, I can:
> > > PDF > Zoom In / Zoom Out, alternatively, I can use:
> > > cmd + / cmd -
> > > - It is a 2nd window display of the same pdf. (Up to now, I have tried
> > > many times, without success, how to bring in a 2nd window display of
> > > the same pdf, in Skim, and in Preview)
> > > - I do not know how to Toggle the ToolBar on its upper part. But, this
> > > may be good, to distinguish this "side window" from the primary one.
> > >
> > >> The one thing that annoys me about this though is that I first have to wait for the pop-up to appear. If I command-click before the popup appears, a tiny useless window pops up. I believe that at one time I used to be able to do a command-click before the pop-up appeared and it worked properly, but at some point it stopped working properly.
> > >
> > > With my Skim (Version 1.6.11 (141)), the side window appears without
> > > waiting for the small pop-up window, just by:
> > >
> > > cmd+click
> > > - I get a side window, full width, 7-8 lines
> > > - I get a 3rd, 4th, 5th (I haven?t tried for more cmd+click :-)
> > >
> > > This is an excellent feature - thanks Christian, hoping you read this,
> > > and will try to do something with the pop-up small window, to get the
> > > entire math display displayed in it.
> > >
> > > Richard, thanks for telling us about it.
> > >
> > > Dick, now TexShop should get this feature as well.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Richard S?guin
> > >>
> > >>> On Jul 10, 2022, at 6:25 AM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Murray, Hi everybody,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 7:07 PM Murray Eisenberg
> > >>> <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Howdy,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Skim has the same feature, including, after having jumped to the
> > >>> hyperlinked page, to return back to the spot of the hyperlink. This is
> > >>> very useful to quickly check math displays (equations, etc.)
> > >>>
> > >>> There is a difference between TexShop pdf preview and Skim:
> > >>>
> > >>> - In Skim, on my 13" screen:
> > >>> The pop-up target, a small window, displays only portions of the math
> > >>> displays. Typically, the left-hand portion of a math display is cut
> > >>> off. This makes it of little use, in many cases, actually almost
> > >>> always. Thus, I have to jump to the target page to see the full math
> > >>> display.
> > >>> The small pop-up window shows the right-hand side of the math display,
> > >>> in full, including its tag / number.
> > >>> It is very useful that the font size of the math, in the pop-up
> > >>> window, is sufficiently large to see clearly the math symbols of the
> > >>> visible portion.
> > >>>
> > >>> - In TexShop pdf display:
> > >>> The pop-up small window shows almost the entire math display. I guess,
> > >>> this is achieved by the tiny font-size of the math display in the
> > >>> small pop-up window,  to fit in. But, it's also shifted, so that the
> > >>> right-hand side of the equation tag / number is cut off and not shown,
> > >>> while the left-hand side margin is shown, which is empty space.
> > >>>
> > >>> The major difference:
> > >>>
> > >>> In Skim:
> > >>> the font-size is usefully large, but the math display is cut-off, and
> > >>> I can see only a portion of it.
> > >>>
> > >>> In TexShop:
> > >>> the tiny font-size allows me to see almost the entire math display
> > >>> (except the right-hand tag / number), but it is too small to see
> > >>> details of the math symbols. It shows the empty left margin, which is
> > >>> a waste of space.
> > >>>
> > >>> I guess these differences are related to the scale of the pdf display,
> > >>> and the screen size.
> > >>>
> > >>> On a very old MacBook Air 13", that is how I see the pop-up small windows.
> > >>>
> > >>> At one point, I wrote to Christian of Skim about this problem. But I
> > >>> have not been able to figure out whether that can be adjusted, e.g.,
> > >>> in the preferences, etc. settings, or if it's part of settings in the
> > >>> software of the pdf display.
> > >>>
> > >>> Best Regards,
> > >>> Roussanka
> > >>>
> > >>>> If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I?m asking about.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I?m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I?m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop ? viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
> > >>>> ---
> > >>>> Murray Eisenberg murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> > >>>> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> > >>>> 503 King Farm Blvd #101
> > >>>> Rockville, MD 20850-6667
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > >>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > >>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> > >>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> > >>>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> > >>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > >>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> > >>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > >>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > >>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> > >>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> > >>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> > >>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > >>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> > >>
> > >> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > >> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > >> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> > >> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> > >>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> > >> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > >> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> > > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > > List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> > > List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> > >                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> > > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > > List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> >
> > ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> > List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> > List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> >                 https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> > TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> > List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

From murrayeisenberg at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 20:59:28 2022
From: murrayeisenberg at gmail.com (Murray Eisenberg)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 20:59:28 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
In-Reply-To: <0C627F28-BC48-43D6-853E-30114BF489E5@uoregon.edu>
References: <4F3B4FC3-0408-4016-8141-AD592ECB97DD@gmail.com>
 <3D306D79-FD83-4965-AB36-966632F879D0@mac.com>
 <C564B40B-CC5D-4F76-8C20-5913F7F47936@gmail.com>
 <CACAe74hpO598bVPHGSi72pg7jLO03RrjnFW40ntMAbLrs8pS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1A26B5B-16A7-41D8-8BEF-274D660713AB@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74hjJN1Nr7UjKJi17QuFfCkm3f+CSA4Z8a+OjdJ9FoB+gQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05C1E04A-AC09-492F-B211-1899A821AA90@earthlink.net>
 <CACAe74h2+jJwUtE5pLjW_V989oDzsQjenVdtxhfXF1FWtcjawA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0C627F28-BC48-43D6-853E-30114BF489E5@uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <5D71439D-BD47-40BB-9DDB-464A693DB5DE@gmail.com>



> On 12 Jul2022, at 10:51 PM, Richard Koch <koch at uoregon.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> I've read with interest the conversation on hyperref pop-ups. Many parts of the conversation were about other front ends, but a few remarks listed problems with TeXShop and I thought briefly about how to improve the experience while keeping the current design. 
> 
> You can experiment with the result by downloading
> 
> https://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop478.zip <https://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop478.zip>
> 
> Read the Changes document to see what is different. This is a preliminary version of 4.78, which may not appear for several weeks because of other requested changes and bug fixes.
> 


I like that new feature of the hyperlinked pop-up persisting as long as the cursor stays there (provided one presses Option first). 

But it does suffer the same limitation as the previously existing feature of the ?disappearing? pop-up: the pop-up window is mispositioned on the text containing the target of the link ? the left edge of text is cut off while there is too much of a white-space margin on the right edge.

---
Murray Eisenberg		murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
Mobile (413)-427-5334
503 King Farm Blvd #101		
Rockville, MD 20850-6667	



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From koch at uoregon.edu  Sun Jul 17 16:29:30 2022
From: koch at uoregon.edu (Richard Koch)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 20:29:30 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] TeXShop 4.78
Message-ID: <9A4CA097-ECEF-48DC-9B03-CBB92C443529@uoregon.edu>

Folks,

TeXShop 4.78, with both new features and bug fixes, is available via the Sparkle update mechanism and from

https://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/texshop.html

Richard Koch
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From Zbigniew.Nitecki at tufts.edu  Mon Jul 18 10:49:50 2022
From: Zbigniew.Nitecki at tufts.edu (Nitecki, Zbigniew H.)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:49:50 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] Strange pstricks behavior
Message-ID: <CA378027-1B91-4071-863D-C9462692AB59@tufts.edu>

The attached code creates the attached pdf.  Two puzzlements: 1. blank first page  2. line 19  ?\psline(4,12)(15,12)? produces no result.
Why?




Zbigniew Nitecki
Department of Mathematics
Tufts University
Medford, MA 02155

telephones:
Office    (617)627-3843
Dept.    (617)627-3234
Dept. fax    (617)627-3966
http://www.tufts.edu/~znitecki/




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From jhs0807 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 18 10:53:47 2022
From: jhs0807 at gmail.com (Joshua Smith)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:53:47 -0400
Subject: [OS X TeX] Strange pstricks behavior
In-Reply-To: <CA378027-1B91-4071-863D-C9462692AB59@tufts.edu>
References: <CA378027-1B91-4071-863D-C9462692AB59@tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <65215D8C-8870-4B7C-83AF-4F646211DB31@gmail.com>

Hi Zbigniew,

I?m not a PSTricks expert, but I think both problems are because the image is too large to fit on a page, so it bumps it to the second page and doesn?t draw the line.  Change

\begin{pspicture}(1,1)(16,22)	

to
 
\begin{pspicture}(1,1)(14,20)	

and see the difference.

Josh


> On Jul 18, 2022, at 10:49 AM, Nitecki, Zbigniew H. <Zbigniew.Nitecki at tufts.edu> wrote:
> 
> The attached code creates the attached pdf.  Two puzzlements: 1. blank first page  2. line 19  ?\psline(4,12)(15,12)? produces no result.
> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zbigniew Nitecki
> Department of Mathematics
> Tufts University
> Medford, MA 02155
> 
> telephones:
> Office    (617)627-3843
> Dept.    (617)627-3234
> Dept. fax    (617)627-3966
> http://www.tufts.edu/~znitecki/ <http://www.tufts.edu/~znitecki/>
> 
> 
> 
> <Figuretest.tex><Figuretest.pdf>----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

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From Zbigniew.Nitecki at tufts.edu  Mon Jul 18 11:50:56 2022
From: Zbigniew.Nitecki at tufts.edu (Nitecki, Zbigniew H.)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 15:50:56 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] [External]  Strange pstricks behavior
In-Reply-To: <65215D8C-8870-4B7C-83AF-4F646211DB31@gmail.com>
References: <CA378027-1B91-4071-863D-C9462692AB59@tufts.edu>
 <65215D8C-8870-4B7C-83AF-4F646211DB31@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B627059-6105-41D0-8227-D43D3A9E0B28@tufts.edu>

Thanks.  Actually, the other problem was my perception (the line is there, but too thin to show over the grid line).

On Jul 18, 2022, at 10:53, Joshua Smith <jhs0807 at gmail.com<mailto:jhs0807 at gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Zbigniew,

I?m not a PSTricks expert, but I think both problems are because the image is too large to fit on a page, so it bumps it to the second page and doesn?t draw the line.  Change

\begin{pspicture}(1,1)(16,22)

to

\begin{pspicture}(1,1)(14,20)

and see the difference.

Josh


On Jul 18, 2022, at 10:49 AM, Nitecki, Zbigniew H. <Zbigniew.Nitecki at tufts.edu<mailto:Zbigniew.Nitecki at tufts.edu>> wrote:

The attached code creates the attached pdf.  Two puzzlements: 1. blank first page  2. line 19  ?\psline(4,12)(15,12)? produces no result.
Why?




Zbigniew Nitecki
Department of Mathematics
Tufts University
Medford, MA 02155

telephones:
Office    (617)627-3843
Dept.    (617)627-3234
Dept. fax    (617)627-3966
http://www.tufts.edu/~znitecki/




<Figuretest.tex><Figuretest.pdf>----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex


Caution: This message originated from outside of the Tufts University organization. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments. When in doubt, email the TTS Service Desk at it at tufts.edu<mailto:%20it at tufts.edu.com> or call them directly at 617-627-3376.

----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
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From jfine2358 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 20 14:44:12 2022
From: jfine2358 at gmail.com (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 19:44:12 +0100
Subject: [OS X TeX] TeX Hour: Thu 21 July: Open Space: All persons and
 topics welcome
In-Reply-To: <CALD=Yf_-mS2AMZZ8OxyDVjChjpKoeX7aetyirkuUe9b-yguAUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALD=Yf_sBEvRFVX9DfAN=VsiDDOesW=qd2GzayeRcTccBhH+_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALD=Yf_-mS2AMZZ8OxyDVjChjpKoeX7aetyirkuUe9b-yguAUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALD=Yf-LEqRj2apze34T-3k44FwmfaEbO_KWdRL4S9zPahVU7A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

First a personal word about the climate emergency, then tomorrow's TeX
Hour. Abstracts for my TeX 2022 Conference talks are in Appendix.

Earlier this week the heat dome over Europe split out onto the UK. (Brexit
did not protect us. The laws of physics do not obey the laws of society.)
On Monday and Tuesday we had record temperatures, reaching 40.2 C. In the
dry hot weather there were many fires. No more green and pleasant land.

Tuesday afternoon was the worst, and for about 5 hours it felt that my home
was heating up in a hot oven. I now better feel sympathy and solidarity for
those suffering much more than I am from the climate emergency.

Normal service, including refreshing rain, has now resumed. There will be a
TeX Hour tomorrow. It will be an Open House. All topics and persons
welcome, particularly beginners and new visitors.

TeX Hour: Open Space: Thursday 21 July, 6:30 to 7:30pm UK time.
Zoom URL:
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09
UK Time Now: https://time.is/UK.

Tomorrow and Friday I'll be preparing my talks for the TeX 2022 Conference.
My titles are

   - Access and Accessibility
   - The UK TeX Users Group - a personal history

Here's the TeX 2022 Conference  (free of charge):
https://tug.org/tug2022/index.html

with best wishes

Jonathan
===

APPENDIX A: Access and Accessibility

The Chafee Amendment [1] to US copyright law "allows authorized entities to
reproduce or distribute copies or phonorecords of previously published
literary or musical works in accessible formats exclusively for use by
print-disabled persons."

This wonderful legal exemption to copyright nicely illustrates the relation
between access (here to print works) and accessibility (here production of
phonorecords, i.e. audiobooks). Here's another illustration.

Jonathan Godfrey, a blind Senior Lecturer in Statistics in New Zealand
wrote to the Blind Math list [2] "I used to use TeX4HT as my main tool for
getting HTML from LaTeX source. This was and probably still is, an
excellent tool. How much traction does it get though? Not much. Why? I
don't know, but my current theory is that tools that aren't right under
people's noses or automatically applied in the background just don't get as
much traction."

Jonathan Godfrey also wrote to the BlindMath list [3] "Something has to
change in the very way people use LaTeX if we are ever to get truly
accessible pdf documents. I've laboured the point that we need access to
information much more than we need access to a specific file format, and
I'll keep doing so. [...] I do think a fundamental shift in thinking about
how we get access to information is required across most STEM disciplines."

This talk looks at the experience of visually impaired STEM students and
professionals, from both the point of view of easy access to suitable
inputs and tools and also the generation of accessible outputs, as
pioneered and enabled by the Chafee Amendment.

URLs
[1]
https://www.loc.gov/nls/about/organization/laws-regulations/copyright-law-amendment-1996-pl-104-197/
[2]
http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindmath_nfbnet.org/2021-January/009641.html
[3] http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindmath_nfbnet.org/2021-March/009778.html

APPENDIX B: The UK TeX Users Group - a personal history

UK TUG was established in the early 1990s. I've been a member of UK TUG
almost from its start through to its dissolution earlier this year. Much
has changed both in the TeX community and in the wider world over that
time.

UK TUG was a significant part of the TeX community. Besides myself
(Jonathan Fine), former members of UK TUG include Peter Abbott, Kaveh
Bazargan, David Carlisle, Paulo Cereda, Malcolm Clark, David Crossland,
Robin Fairbairns, Alan Jeffrey, Sebastian Rahtz, Arthur Rosendahl, Chris
Rowley, Philip Taylor and Joseph Wright.

This list includes 2 past Presidents of TUG, the current Vice President and
a past Secretary.  Ten people on the list served on the TUG Board, for a
total of over 30 years.

Five are or were members of the LaTeX3 project. One was the founder and for
8 years editor of TeX Live, and another the Technical coordinator of the
NTS project. One is a Lead Program Manager for Google Fonts.

This talk provides a personal history from `\begin{uktug}` to
`\end{uktug}`, with a short `\aftergroup` appendix.

[END]
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From jfine2358 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 25 10:24:17 2022
From: jfine2358 at gmail.com (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 15:24:17 +0100
Subject: [OS X TeX] TeX Hour: Thu 28 July: 6:30pm UK time. The Future of the
 TeX Users Group
In-Reply-To: <CALD=Yf_=TWRdkw4zerXMfXqGpxxH6w9a0Mx26PtG3OYfMy10TQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALD=Yf_Lv6BQnu62xgy-H5Uz-i-Sptn0vN+91HNOJFhfRe8vJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALD=Yf-DVmPJxiLox-x4Xg7BWvqkLbkhLQpYWX+64N8wLFvA-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALD=Yf_=TWRdkw4zerXMfXqGpxxH6w9a0Mx26PtG3OYfMy10TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALD=Yf89LMtsg7gx+5AF4SX0nVKhgmO_WrWwA7KPEz81Ua_SqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Last weekend was the 2022 TeX Conference, organised by the TeX Users Group
(TUG). It went well. I thank the organisers, volunteers, speakers and
participants. This week's TeX Hour is on The Future of TUG.  All members of
TUG, TeX users and friends are most welcome. As usual, this TeX Hour will
be recorded and published on YouTube.

Date: Thursday 28 July, 6:30 to 7:30pm UK time.
Zoom URL:
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09
UK Time Now: https://time.is/UK.

If you have specific ideas or topics you'd like to discuss, or are unable
to attend, please if possible email them to me soon. Here are three talks
from the TeX Conference (in order of presentation). The video URL will
change when the conference live stream is split in talks.

Title: Jonathan Fine: A personal history of UK TUG.
Slides: https://www.slideshare.net/jonathanfine/a-personal-history-of-uk-tug

Video: https://youtu.be/cqbKgjAlNjo?t=10697

Title: Ross Moore: Accessible Tables using Tagged PDF.
Video: https://youtu.be/M4fwvgU-5dE?t=19170

Title: Jonathan Fine: Access and Accessibility.
Slides: https://www.slideshare.net/jonathanfine/access-and-accessibility
Video: https://youtu.be/0TWe0adXX98?t=34935

We'll be on holiday mode for August. The Zoom room will still be open
Thursday 6:30 to 7:30pm as above, for anyone who wants to drop in, or host
their own event.

wishing you happy holidays and TeXing

Jonathan
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From marc.wijnand at ircam.fr  Fri Jul 29 07:14:56 2022
From: marc.wijnand at ircam.fr (Marc Wijnand)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:14:56 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Older MacTeX version
Message-ID: <ccfafe131f66fdd7a33e463196be8855@ircam.fr>

Hello

Is there a table that links older MacTeX versions to the OS X versions?

I have downloaded the .pkg files from the last years to be installed on 
OS X 10.13, and I keep getting the error message

"The operation couldn't be completed. 
(com.appel.installer.pagecontroller error -1.)
Couldn't open "MacTeX.pkg"."

Best regards
Marc
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From herbs2 at mac.com  Fri Jul 29 07:55:17 2022
From: herbs2 at mac.com (Herbert Schulz)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:55:17 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] Older MacTeX version
In-Reply-To: <ccfafe131f66fdd7a33e463196be8855@ircam.fr>
References: <ccfafe131f66fdd7a33e463196be8855@ircam.fr>
Message-ID: <BDDA660F-C355-4BEB-B7C4-EEAF793EB267@mac.com>



> On Jul 29, 2022, at 6:14 AM, Marc Wijnand <marc.wijnand at ircam.fr> wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> Is there a table that links older MacTeX versions to the OS X versions?
> 
> I have downloaded the .pkg files from the last years to be installed on OS X 10.13, and I keep getting the error message
> 
> "The operation couldn't be completed. (com.appel.installer.pagecontroller error -1.)
> Couldn't open "MacTeX.pkg"."
> 
> Best regards
> Marc
> 

Howdy,

The latest MacTeX for 2022 is for macOS 10.14 and later.

You can use the Unix Installer to get TeX Live 2022 that will operate on your system. See the `Unix Download' link at <https://www.tug.org/mactex/>. Please red and follow all the directions at that link.

If you really want an older MacTeX see the link at the URL above and the `click here' link on the paragraph about Obtaining Older Versions.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
herbs2 at mac.com



From koch at uoregon.edu  Fri Jul 29 14:48:24 2022
From: koch at uoregon.edu (Richard Koch)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 18:48:24 +0000
Subject: [OS X TeX] TeXShop 4.79
Message-ID: <C2C2284B-B5CC-4387-9A0C-679BFE9EC9D2@uoregon.edu>

Folks,

TeXShop 4.79 is available via the Sparkle update mechanism and from

https://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/texshop.html

Yesterday I mistakenly sent a message to this list that was intended to go to a few people working on TeXShop. I apologize for the mistake. TeX on Mac OS X is for general questions about TeX on macOS, not about a particular GUI.

Let me break that rule this once. Version 4.79 contains fixes by Isao Sonobe for a couple of small bugs in the OgreKit Find Panel. Over the years, TeXShop has included major contributions from several programmers in Japan. I was not familiar with the OgreKit program, but one of these contributors added TeXShop support for it. Thus the Find Panel gained supported for regular expressions, which has been crucial for many users.

TeXShop has only one line of code to implement OgreKit. When TeXShop starts up, it consults the Find Preference Setting, and if OgreKit is desired, it makes an isolated call to OgreKit.

OgreKit then does astonishing things. When it runs, the TeXShop Edit menu has a submenu titled "Find" with many items. This menu item is not in the TeXShop nib file; it is added by OgreKit when it first runs.  OgreKit acts through the Cocoa class library without needing assistance from TeXShop.

TeXShop users should remember the name Isao Sonobe, because all of the help from the panel is due to him.

Richard Koch





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From herbs2 at mac.com  Fri Jul 29 15:20:14 2022
From: herbs2 at mac.com (Herbert Schulz)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 14:20:14 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] TeXShop 4.79
In-Reply-To: <C2C2284B-B5CC-4387-9A0C-679BFE9EC9D2@uoregon.edu>
References: <C2C2284B-B5CC-4387-9A0C-679BFE9EC9D2@uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <33239B3D-4897-4547-8019-898F6C3BE020@mac.com>



> On Jul 29, 2022, at 1:48 PM, Richard Koch <koch at uoregon.edu> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> TeXShop 4.79 is available via the Sparkle update mechanism and from
> 
> https://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/texshop.html
> 
> Yesterday I mistakenly sent a message to this list that was intended to go to a few people working on TeXShop. I apologize for the mistake. TeX on Mac OS X is for general questions about TeX on macOS, not about a particular GUI.
> 
> Let me break that rule this once. Version 4.79 contains fixes by Isao Sonobe for a couple of small bugs in the OgreKit Find Panel. Over the years, TeXShop has included major contributions from several programmers in Japan. I was not familiar with the OgreKit program, but one of these contributors added TeXShop support for it. Thus the Find Panel gained supported for regular expressions, which has been crucial for many users.
> 
> TeXShop has only one line of code to implement OgreKit. When TeXShop starts up, it consults the Find Preference Setting, and if OgreKit is desired, it makes an isolated call to OgreKit. 
> 
> OgreKit then does astonishing things. When it runs, the TeXShop Edit menu has a submenu titled "Find" with many items. This menu item is not in the TeXShop nib file; it is added by OgreKit when it first runs.  OgreKit acts through the Cocoa class library without needing assistance from TeXShop.
> 
> TeXShop users should remember the name Isao Sonobe, because all of the help from the panel is due to him.
> 
> Richard Koch

Howdy,

Let me add that if you downloaded the test version from yesterday you should update to this final version. Yesterday's test version has a problem  which is fixed in this final, released version.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
herbs2 at mac.com



From marc.wijnand at ircam.fr  Sat Jul 30 07:11:33 2022
From: marc.wijnand at ircam.fr (Marc Wijnand)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:11:33 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] Older MacTeX version
In-Reply-To: <BDDA660F-C355-4BEB-B7C4-EEAF793EB267@mac.com>
References: <ccfafe131f66fdd7a33e463196be8855@ircam.fr>
 <BDDA660F-C355-4BEB-B7C4-EEAF793EB267@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a0177e3b3942219f159d329e5cf40ca7@ircam.fr>

Hello

Thank you! I hadn't seen the part about the Unix installer.

Marc

2022-07-29 13:55, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX wrote:

>> On Jul 29, 2022, at 6:14 AM, Marc Wijnand <marc.wijnand at ircam.fr> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello
>> 
>> Is there a table that links older MacTeX versions to the OS X 
>> versions?
>> 
>> I have downloaded the .pkg files from the last years to be installed 
>> on OS X 10.13, and I keep getting the error message
>> 
>> "The operation couldn't be completed. 
>> (com.appel.installer.pagecontroller error -1.)
>> Couldn't open "MacTeX.pkg"."
>> 
>> Best regards
>> Marc
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> The latest MacTeX for 2022 is for macOS 10.14 and later.
> 
> You can use the Unix Installer to get TeX Live 2022 that will operate 
> on your system. See the `Unix Download' link at 
> <https://www.tug.org/mactex/>. Please red and follow all the directions 
> at that link.
> 
> If you really want an older MacTeX see the link at the URL above and 
> the `click here' link on the paragraph about Obtaining Older Versions.
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Herb Schulz
> herbs2 at mac.com
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
> https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
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From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 13:49:04 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 12:49:04 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration scripts
Message-ID: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>

I just did a mostly trouble free update directly from Big Sur 11.6 to Monterey 12.5. There has only been one nasty surprise: it broke the Nathan Grigg?s BBEdit/Skim integration scripts:

https://nathangrigg.com/latex-bbpackage/

The scripts are an interdependent mix of AppleScript and Python scripts. Apparently in 12.3, Apple removed Python 2 leaving the more secure Python 3, and the removal of Python 2 broke everything. On attempting to typeset I would get the following error message:

> Error extracting directives from file (python script directives.py)
> 
> sh: /Users/richardseguin/Library/Application Support/BBEdit/Packages/Latex.bbpackage/Contents/Resources/directives.py: /usr/bin/python: bad interpreter: No such file or directory

The scripts are still available on GitHub via the above address but the author declared a few years ago that he would no longer maintain them, so I don?t anticipate a fix for this problem unless someone who knows Python (I don?t) can take on the project of doing that.

I liked using the scripts because of the elegant way that they trapped TeX errors, displayed them in a custom window and would point BBEdit directly to the line where an error occurred. This is much better than the older Sneep scripts which would just dump all the (voluminous) console messages into a Terminal window on the desktop behind Skim, and I don?t look forward to going back to that.

At least the old Sneep scripts still work:

https://msneep.home.xs4all.nl/latex/

and especially the Run pdflatex.scpt and Synchronize with Skim.scpt scripts. The later script synchronizes forward from the .tex to the .pdf; synchronizing backwards from the .pdf to the .tex is built into Skim itself.)

While looking at all this last night I stumbled on this old BBEdit AppleScript I had that saves the current .tex and tells TeXShop to run pdflatex and display the resulting .pdf. It seems to work when TeXShop is in external editor mode. I don?t know where this script came from if I didn?t write this myself, and I don?t remember.

> tell application "BBEdit"
> 	set filename to (file of text window 1) as text
> end tell
> set unixname to POSIX path of filename
> set oldDelimiters to AppleScript's text item delimiters
> set AppleScript's text item delimiters to "/"
> -- pull the path out as a string and strip off the filename
> set pathText to unixname
> set pathList to (text items of pathText)
> set docName to last item of pathList
> set AppleScript's text item delimiters to oldDelimiters
> tell application "BBEdit"
> 	save text document docName
> end tell
> tell document docName of application "TeXShop"
> 	--activate
> 	latexinteractive
> end tell
> 

Unfortunately I don?t think BBEdit/TeXShop synching has been established yet -- right?

Richard S?guin

From herbs2 at mac.com  Sun Jul 31 14:41:07 2022
From: herbs2 at mac.com (Herbert Schulz)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:41:07 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4BA34E40-EB6F-4B27-A379-836246E8D01E@mac.com>



> On Jul 31, 2022, at 12:49 PM, Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I don?t think BBEdit/TeXShop synching has been established yet -- right?
> 
> Richard S?guin

Howdy,

Update to the latest TeXShop and run it once to update ~/Library/TeXShop. Take a look at ~/Library/TeXShop/ExternalEditorScripts/BBEdit for information. Outside of its existence I know nothing about this. 

Actually this goes back to TeXShop 4.66 but it's good have all the latest updates and fixes.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
herbs2 at mac.com



From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 15:26:33 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:26:33 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <4BA34E40-EB6F-4B27-A379-836246E8D01E@mac.com>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
 <4BA34E40-EB6F-4B27-A379-836246E8D01E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4B150883-B90A-439A-B299-98004B984F86@earthlink.net>

Thanks Herb. That?s what I was looking for! I?ll be trying this out later. Meanwhile, I?ve had way too much computer fiddling in the past 24 hours and I need to go out for a walk ...

I?ve also discovered that there is supposedly an automated Python 2 ?> Python 3 converter somewhere, and if I can figure out where it is and how to use it I might try dabbling with Nathan Grigg?s scripts.

Richard

> On Jul 31, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 12:49 PM, Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Unfortunately I don?t think BBEdit/TeXShop synching has been established yet -- right?
>> 
>> Richard S?guin
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> Update to the latest TeXShop and run it once to update ~/Library/TeXShop. Take a look at ~/Library/TeXShop/ExternalEditorScripts/BBEdit for information. Outside of its existence I know nothing about this. 
> 
> Actually this goes back to TeXShop 4.66 but it's good have all the latest updates and fixes.
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Herb Schulz
> herbs2 at mac.com
> 
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

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From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 15:40:04 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:40:04 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] Test
Message-ID: <E57C452A-766D-4A3C-A544-6600A74B0FB0@earthlink.net>

This is a test. My ISP has been marking TeX on Mac OS X Mailing List messages as spam again, and I?m seeing if I now have this address white listed.

Richard

From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 15:47:07 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:47:07 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] Test 2
Message-ID: <FCFB6B4B-C43D-433C-A853-2F895FA616A2@earthlink.net>

Test 2

From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 15:56:22 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:56:22 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] Test 2
Message-ID: <F31A296B-21A5-41D3-82AC-EF1F6FE969A5@earthlink.net>

Test 2

From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 15:59:42 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:59:42 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] Test 3
Message-ID: <C0A1345B-4D1E-447E-A075-289E602D7A19@earthlink.net>

test 3

From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 16:10:18 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:10:18 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] Problems with spam blocking for this list
Message-ID: <07439B2C-2F89-4E7B-81FD-467EAA9F837F@earthlink.net>

I?m currently having problems with my ISP, Earthlink, blocking all messages from this list (including ones generated by myself). They are not coming through to Mail on my mac. In webmail, I can see that messages from this list are being moved to the ?known spam? folder even if I attempt to add the list as a legitimate contact. I can mark a message as ?not spam? in web mail and doing so moves it to their ?in box? and the message finally appears in Mail on my end, but I can?t seem to find a permanent solution. I have to keep looking in webmail or going to the list archive, and that?s not convenient ?

This has happened at least twice before, and then eventually I start getting messages again, and I have no idea why this problem is intermittent.

Richard

From amaxwell at mac.com  Sun Jul 31 17:12:36 2022
From: amaxwell at mac.com (Adam R. Maxwell)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 14:12:36 -0700
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>


> On Jul 31, 2022, at 10:49 , Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> The scripts are an interdependent mix of AppleScript and Python scripts. Apparently in 12.3, Apple removed Python 2 leaving the more secure Python 3, and the removal of Python 2 broke everything. On attempting to typeset I would get the following error message:

Correction: Apple never shipped Python 3, so there is no longer any version of Python shipped with OS X. Your easy button here is to install Python 2 using the installer package here:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/ <https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/>

Caveats about Python 2 being unmaintained, less secure, etc apply, and migrating to Python 3 is probably a good idea. You can also find a binary installer for Python 3 at python.org <http://python.org/>. Apple ships a lobotomized Python 3 with its developer tools, but don't rely on it for general usage.

Adam

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From stefanML at collocations.de  Sun Jul 31 18:27:02 2022
From: stefanML at collocations.de (Stephanie Evert)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 00:27:02 +0200
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
 <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <25BDDE4D-B7A2-4DF0-AA55-2A5D3594CEF7@collocations.de>



> On 31 Jul 2022, at 23:12, Adam R. Maxwell via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Correction: Apple never shipped Python 3, so there is no longer any version of Python shipped with OS X. Your easy button here is to install Python 2 using the installer package here:

That doesn't seem to be true.  My MacBook running Monterey has Python 3.8.9 in /usr/bin/python3.  You might need to install the XCode command-line tools in order to get it, but that's easy enough.

Best,
Stephanie


From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 18:27:39 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:27:39 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
 <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B22915E5-4748-497B-A2E9-AD0316E90358@earthlink.net>

[This message from Adam did come through directly to my Mail, so maybe my ISP finally got the message that this is not spam.]

Adam,

Thanks for the link to the download! I might install it, at least on a temporary basis, while I?m looking into the migration issue. There is a unix executable in usr/bin called python3, although it?s only about 12 KB in size. I don?t know what this is ? just a placeholder of sorts perhaps? I?m not sure if there used to be a file called python or python2 in that spot since I did not look before the upgrade to the operating system. 

The integration scripts by Nathan Grigg involves two python files, as far as I?ve discovered so far: parse_log.py and directives.py. Both of these files begin with "#!/usr/bin/python?. As an experiment, with BBEdit I temporarily changed both of these lines to "#!/usr/bin/python3? and I got beyond the original error message to yet another one.

Richard

> On Jul 31, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Adam R. Maxwell via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 10:49 , Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net <mailto:riseguin at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> The scripts are an interdependent mix of AppleScript and Python scripts. Apparently in 12.3, Apple removed Python 2 leaving the more secure Python 3, and the removal of Python 2 broke everything. On attempting to typeset I would get the following error message:
> 
> Correction: Apple never shipped Python 3, so there is no longer any version of Python shipped with OS X. Your easy button here is to install Python 2 using the installer package here:
> 
> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/ <https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/>
> 
> Caveats about Python 2 being unmaintained, less secure, etc apply, and migrating to Python 3 is probably a good idea. You can also find a binary installer for Python 3 at python.org <http://python.org/>. Apple ships a lobotomized Python 3 with its developer tools, but don't rely on it for general usage.
> 
> Adam
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

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From amaxwell at mac.com  Sun Jul 31 18:40:37 2022
From: amaxwell at mac.com (Adam R. Maxwell)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:40:37 -0700
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <25BDDE4D-B7A2-4DF0-AA55-2A5D3594CEF7@collocations.de>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
 <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>
 <25BDDE4D-B7A2-4DF0-AA55-2A5D3594CEF7@collocations.de>
Message-ID: <45F311DD-141C-4E79-AC64-B1B25F1567AF@mac.com>


> On Jul 31, 2022, at 15:27 , Stephanie Evert <stefanML at collocations.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 31 Jul 2022, at 23:12, Adam R. Maxwell via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Correction: Apple never shipped Python 3, so there is no longer any version of Python shipped with OS X. Your easy button here is to install Python 2 using the installer package here:
> 
> That doesn't seem to be true.  My MacBook running Monterey has Python 3.8.9 in /usr/bin/python3.  You might need to install the XCode command-line tools in order to get it, but that's easy enough.

Yes, /usr/bin/python3 is a stub that will trigger a download and install of Apple's Python, but it's intended just for Apple's internal usage in its developer tools, and shouldn't be relied on by 3rd parties (this is why I refer to it as "lobotomized").

Do not rely on Apple for Python or any other scripting language runtime (including Perl) in future. DAMHIKT.

-- 
Adam



From msharpe at ucsd.edu  Sun Jul 31 19:02:48 2022
From: msharpe at ucsd.edu (Michael Sharpe)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 16:02:48 -0700
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <B22915E5-4748-497B-A2E9-AD0316E90358@earthlink.net>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
 <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>
 <B22915E5-4748-497B-A2E9-AD0316E90358@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <57ABB2FA-03F6-451A-BCBC-3A2C6BA2B99C@ucsd.edu>

For my python 3 setup, I was able to correct parse_log.py and directives.py by changing the first line to

#!/usr/bin/env python3

and changing each print statement to enclose the argument in parentheses.

I also stumbled over a problem with the Check LaTeX Semantics script which incorrectly parses error lines containing "User Regex". Perhaps that may be fixed with a different set of options.

To answer your other question, the scripts that Herb referred to earlier do indeed provide full backward and forward synching between BBEdit and the TeXShop pdf previewer. Make sure to follow the setup directions with care.

Michael

> On Jul 31, 2022, at 3:27 PM, Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> [This message from Adam did come through directly to my Mail, so maybe my ISP finally got the message that this is not spam.]
> 
> Adam,
> 
> Thanks for the link to the download! I might install it, at least on a temporary basis, while I?m looking into the migration issue. There is a unix executable in usr/bin called python3, although it?s only about 12 KB in size. I don?t know what this is ? just a placeholder of sorts perhaps? I?m not sure if there used to be a file called python or python2 in that spot since I did not look before the upgrade to the operating system. 
> 
> The integration scripts by Nathan Grigg involves two python files, as far as I?ve discovered so far: parse_log.py and directives.py. Both of these files begin with "#!/usr/bin/python?. As an experiment, with BBEdit I temporarily changed both of these lines to "#!/usr/bin/python3? and I got beyond the original error message to yet another one.
> 
> Richard
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Adam R. Maxwell via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 10:49 , Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The scripts are an interdependent mix of AppleScript and Python scripts. Apparently in 12.3, Apple removed Python 2 leaving the more secure Python 3, and the removal of Python 2 broke everything. On attempting to typeset I would get the following error message:
>> 
>> Correction: Apple never shipped Python 3, so there is no longer any version of Python shipped with OS X. Your easy button here is to install Python 2 using the installer package here:
>> 
>> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/
>> 
>> Caveats about Python 2 being unmaintained, less secure, etc apply, and migrating to Python 3 is probably a good idea. You can also find a binary installer for Python 3 at python.org. Apple ships a lobotomized Python 3 with its developer tools, but don't rely on it for general usage.
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGUZtdL2s$ 
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.esm.psu.edu/*gray/TeX/__;fg!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfG_4gdtO0$ 
> List Archives: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGb0dE7vA$ 
>                https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfG2huBcc4$ 
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGH09yfzA$ 
> List Info: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGDgu5aQo$ 


From riseguin at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 31 19:22:58 2022
From: riseguin at earthlink.net (Richard Seguin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:22:58 -0500
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <57ABB2FA-03F6-451A-BCBC-3A2C6BA2B99C@ucsd.edu>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
 <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>
 <B22915E5-4748-497B-A2E9-AD0316E90358@earthlink.net>
 <57ABB2FA-03F6-451A-BCBC-3A2C6BA2B99C@ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <6123FBF1-418B-4543-8CFB-491C8637BE80@earthlink.net>

Michael,

So you got these scripts to actually work with Monterey? If so, did you download a full install of Python 3 from https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/ <https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/> like Adam suggested? (Note: I don?t think I presently have developer tools, if that matters.) And you only made those changes to the top lines and the print statements in the two files?

By the way, I have to thank you again for all the patience you had a number of years ago guiding me through the process of generating Minion files for TeX from my original postscript files and installing and using them. 

Richard

> On Jul 31, 2022, at 6:02 PM, Michael Sharpe via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> For my python 3 setup, I was able to correct parse_log.py and directives.py by changing the first line to
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python3
> 
> and changing each print statement to enclose the argument in parentheses.
> 
> I also stumbled over a problem with the Check LaTeX Semantics script which incorrectly parses error lines containing "User Regex". Perhaps that may be fixed with a different set of options.
> 
> To answer your other question, the scripts that Herb referred to earlier do indeed provide full backward and forward synching between BBEdit and the TeXShop pdf previewer. Make sure to follow the setup directions with care.
> 
> Michael
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 3:27 PM, Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>> [This message from Adam did come through directly to my Mail, so maybe my ISP finally got the message that this is not spam.]
>> 
>> Adam,
>> 
>> Thanks for the link to the download! I might install it, at least on a temporary basis, while I?m looking into the migration issue. There is a unix executable in usr/bin called python3, although it?s only about 12 KB in size. I don?t know what this is ? just a placeholder of sorts perhaps? I?m not sure if there used to be a file called python or python2 in that spot since I did not look before the upgrade to the operating system. 
>> 
>> The integration scripts by Nathan Grigg involves two python files, as far as I?ve discovered so far: parse_log.py and directives.py. Both of these files begin with "#!/usr/bin/python?. As an experiment, with BBEdit I temporarily changed both of these lines to "#!/usr/bin/python3? and I got beyond the original error message to yet another one.
>> 
>> Richard
>> 
>>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Adam R. Maxwell via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 10:49 , Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The scripts are an interdependent mix of AppleScript and Python scripts. Apparently in 12.3, Apple removed Python 2 leaving the more secure Python 3, and the removal of Python 2 broke everything. On attempting to typeset I would get the following error message:
>>> 
>>> Correction: Apple never shipped Python 3, so there is no longer any version of Python shipped with OS X. Your easy button here is to install Python 2 using the installer package here:
>>> 
>>> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/
>>> 
>>> Caveats about Python 2 being unmaintained, less secure, etc apply, and migrating to Python 3 is probably a good idea. You can also find a binary installer for Python 3 at python.org. Apple ships a lobotomized Python 3 with its developer tools, but don't rely on it for general usage.
>>> 
>>> Adam
>>> 
>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>> 
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGUZtdL2s$ 
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.esm.psu.edu/*gray/TeX/__;fg!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfG_4gdtO0$ 
>> List Archives: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGb0dE7vA$ 
>>               https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfG2huBcc4$ 
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGH09yfzA$ 
>> List Info: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGDgu5aQo$ 
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex

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From msharpe at ucsd.edu  Sun Jul 31 20:11:59 2022
From: msharpe at ucsd.edu (Michael Sharpe)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:11:59 -0700
Subject: [OS X TeX] macOS Monterey - broken BBEdit/Skim integration
 scripts
In-Reply-To: <6123FBF1-418B-4543-8CFB-491C8637BE80@earthlink.net>
References: <D794D57B-7731-410A-B44A-D6117FB66F91@earthlink.net>
 <47E2127B-F7B6-4520-A7C5-CF04C8B427E6@mac.com>
 <B22915E5-4748-497B-A2E9-AD0316E90358@earthlink.net>
 <57ABB2FA-03F6-451A-BCBC-3A2C6BA2B99C@ucsd.edu>
 <6123FBF1-418B-4543-8CFB-491C8637BE80@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A1645F78-2E1D-4293-9406-D3C3DBA02797@ucsd.edu>

Richard,

My python3 installation is from python.org, and, yes, the slightly modified scripts do indeed work with Monterey, though the tool script I mentioned is a separate issue that I have not been able to correct. 

Michael

> On Jul 31, 2022, at 4:22 PM, Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Michael,
> 
> So you got these scripts to actually work with Monterey? If so, did you download a full install of Python 3 from https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/ like Adam suggested? (Note: I don?t think I presently have developer tools, if that matters.) And you only made those changes to the top lines and the print statements in the two files?
> 
> By the way, I have to thank you again for all the patience you had a number of years ago guiding me through the process of generating Minion files for TeX from my original postscript files and installing and using them. 
> 
> Richard
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 6:02 PM, Michael Sharpe via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> For my python 3 setup, I was able to correct parse_log.py and directives.py by changing the first line to
>> 
>> #!/usr/bin/env python3
>> 
>> and changing each print statement to enclose the argument in parentheses.
>> 
>> I also stumbled over a problem with the Check LaTeX Semantics script which incorrectly parses error lines containing "User Regex". Perhaps that may be fixed with a different set of options.
>> 
>> To answer your other question, the scripts that Herb referred to earlier do indeed provide full backward and forward synching between BBEdit and the TeXShop pdf previewer. Make sure to follow the setup directions with care.
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 3:27 PM, Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> [This message from Adam did come through directly to my Mail, so maybe my ISP finally got the message that this is not spam.]
>>> 
>>> Adam,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the link to the download! I might install it, at least on a temporary basis, while I?m looking into the migration issue. There is a unix executable in usr/bin called python3, although it?s only about 12 KB in size. I don?t know what this is ? just a placeholder of sorts perhaps? I?m not sure if there used to be a file called python or python2 in that spot since I did not look before the upgrade to the operating system. 
>>> 
>>> The integration scripts by Nathan Grigg involves two python files, as far as I?ve discovered so far: parse_log.py and directives.py. Both of these files begin with "#!/usr/bin/python?. As an experiment, with BBEdit I temporarily changed both of these lines to "#!/usr/bin/python3? and I got beyond the original error message to yet another one.
>>> 
>>> Richard
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Adam R. Maxwell via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 31, 2022, at 10:49 , Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The scripts are an interdependent mix of AppleScript and Python scripts. Apparently in 12.3, Apple removed Python 2 leaving the more secure Python 3, and the removal of Python 2 broke everything. On attempting to typeset I would get the following error message:
>>>> 
>>>> Correction: Apple never shipped Python 3, so there is no longer any version of Python shipped with OS X. Your easy button here is to install Python 2 using the installer package here:
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/
>>>> 
>>>> Caveats about Python 2 being unmaintained, less secure, etc apply, and migrating to Python 3 is probably a good idea. You can also find a binary installer for Python 3 at python.org. Apple ships a lobotomized Python 3 with its developer tools, but don't rely on it for general usage.
>>>> 
>>>> Adam
>>>> 
>>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>>>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>>>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>>>               https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>>>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>>> 
>>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>>> TeX FAQ: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGUZtdL2s$ 
>>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.esm.psu.edu/*gray/TeX/__;fg!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfG_4gdtO0$ 
>>> List Archives: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGb0dE7vA$ 
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>>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGH09yfzA$ 
>>> List Info: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex__;!!Mih3wA!HiVpFrpiObnEyfNjGKfCXouCYyFRSW2Fgo7AHNqXbtk44pI_-PEW_VGqZy65pwm7OZTIOLCG3LfGDgu5aQo$ 
>> 
>> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: https://sites.esm.psu.edu/~gray/TeX/
>> List Archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.macosx
>>                https://email.esm.psu.edu/pipermail/macosx-tex/
>> TeX on Mac OS X Website: http://mactex-wiki.tug.org/
>> List Info: https://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
> 
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq__;!!Mih3wA!BjUdNMzGl3ijZsOVQfpufp4RbWUSZWMXO_-87N2S0BPjdnPaelDfySM0Ww7Cf4SK05gLdVg8v9QnCkBeRwg$ 
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