[OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links
Roussanka Loukanova
rl.stpuu at gmail.com
Tue Jul 12 16:19:55 EDT 2022
Hi Richard,
Sorry for answering with this delay.
On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 1:51 AM Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hello Roussanka,
>
> I’ve just done a little more investigation. If I’m in a 200 page document, I always have to wait until the pop-up appears before I command-click; otherwise I get the tiny mutant window. If I’m in a 50 page document, I can often command-click just before the time when the pop-up would appear and get the second window in the form I want. If I command-click immediately after hovering over the link with the cursor, I get the tiny mutant window.
I've tried it with a relatively large document of 152 pages. The
cmd+click quickly opens the side windows, without any need to wait for
the small pop-up. The number of the pages doesn't matter, e.g.,
cmd+click by hovering over the hyperlink on p.1 opens the pdf, in a
small side window, with about 7 lines, on the right spot on p.152.
> I wonder if this is a timing issue — for example, maybe something must happen in the code between the time when you hover over the link and you command-click in order for it to work correctly.
> I have an older Mac Mini with a 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7 and a not very fast GPU; maybe the machine is just too slow. It takes a second or two just for the pop-up to appear in both Skim and TeXShop.
>
If there is such a time gap, it seems to me that it is in the PDFKit
(or whatever the software was called), not in the hyperlinks, nor in
Skim (TexShop). It may be that on your Mac it takes that time gap to
open the pdf of 200 (50) pages. The jump to the target spot shouldn't
be taking much if any time.
My MacBook Air is also very slow, but probably your processr is a
little bit slower for such a specific task.
The software (PDFKit?) shouldn't be counting per se the number of
pages and going through the pages. I guess, the target locations of
the hyperlinks are computed and assigned to variables during latex-ing
compilation, and available directly for jumps to those locations. We
run latex a couple of times - for assignments of the target locations,
to be available directly.
My MacBook Air is also very slow, but probably yours is a little bit
slower for such specific task.
Dick of TeXShop and Christian of Skim probably know because they use
that software (PDFKit?) for the feature.
But I've found a limited capability of the 2nd side window, despite
that it has the entire pdf. Even if resized to a full page, I see
three limitations (as of now), or may be I do not know how to handle
them:
- I can't bring in the Toolbar in the secondary window
- none of the items under Tool are active, i.e., I can't make any notes
- the hyperlinks do not work: If I hover the pointer of the cursor
over a link, the pointer turns into the small hand, and nothing
happens with clicks, i.e., there is no jump to the corresponding
hyperlinked locations
That is, it seems that the software (PdfKit?) doesn't have access to
the information about references, nor to the note tools.
Dick and Christian know more, for certain, e.g., after Dick works out
the feature, he may tell us why you get the time gap. Perhaps that is
just for opening the large pdf, on the respective page and line of the
hyperink.
Best Regards,
Roussanka
> Richard
>
> > On Jul 10, 2022, at 2:36 PM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Richard,
> > ...
> >
> >> Skim does have an additional tool though. (I use single page view, and I’m not sure how this works with a double page view). If you hover the cursor over the link long enough for the pop-up to appear and then do a command-click on the link, Skim displays off to the side a window of a full page width view of the lemma or whatever, but only maybe ten lines long, and it’s scrollable vertically. Then I can examine the text on both pages side by side and determine whether or not, for example, the lemma really does imply what I said it does.
> >
> > This is great! I had seen this side window many times before, by
> > accidentally hitting some keys in some rush typing. Now, I know that
> > this is by cmd+click and what it is!
> >
> > In this side window:
> >
> > - I can scroll through the entire pdf in it
> > - I can resize it
> > - From the top menu bar of Skim, I can:
> > PDF > Zoom In / Zoom Out, alternatively, I can use:
> > cmd + / cmd -
> > - It is a 2nd window display of the same pdf. (Up to now, I have tried
> > many times, without success, how to bring in a 2nd window display of
> > the same pdf, in Skim, and in Preview)
> > - I do not know how to Toggle the ToolBar on its upper part. But, this
> > may be good, to distinguish this "side window" from the primary one.
> >
> >> The one thing that annoys me about this though is that I first have to wait for the pop-up to appear. If I command-click before the popup appears, a tiny useless window pops up. I believe that at one time I used to be able to do a command-click before the pop-up appeared and it worked properly, but at some point it stopped working properly.
> >
> > With my Skim (Version 1.6.11 (141)), the side window appears without
> > waiting for the small pop-up window, just by:
> >
> > cmd+click
> > - I get a side window, full width, 7-8 lines
> > - I get a 3rd, 4th, 5th (I havenät tried for more cmd+click :-)
> >
> > This is an excellent feature - thanks Christian, hoping you read this,
> > and will try to do something with the pop-up small window, to get the
> > entire math display displayed in it.
> >
> > Richard, thanks for telling us about it.
> >
> > Dick, now TexShop should get this feature as well.
> >
> >>
> >> Richard Séguin
> >>
> >>> On Jul 10, 2022, at 6:25 AM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Murray, Hi everybody,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 7:07 PM Murray Eisenberg
> >>> <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink.
> >>>>
> >>>> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> Howdy,
> >>>>
> >>>> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Skim has the same feature, including, after having jumped to the
> >>> hyperlinked page, to return back to the spot of the hyperlink. This is
> >>> very useful to quickly check math displays (equations, etc.)
> >>>
> >>> There is a difference between TexShop pdf preview and Skim:
> >>>
> >>> - In Skim, on my 13" screen:
> >>> The pop-up target, a small window, displays only portions of the math
> >>> displays. Typically, the left-hand portion of a math display is cut
> >>> off. This makes it of little use, in many cases, actually almost
> >>> always. Thus, I have to jump to the target page to see the full math
> >>> display.
> >>> The small pop-up window shows the right-hand side of the math display,
> >>> in full, including its tag / number.
> >>> It is very useful that the font size of the math, in the pop-up
> >>> window, is sufficiently large to see clearly the math symbols of the
> >>> visible portion.
> >>>
> >>> - In TexShop pdf display:
> >>> The pop-up small window shows almost the entire math display. I guess,
> >>> this is achieved by the tiny font-size of the math display in the
> >>> small pop-up window, to fit in. But, it's also shifted, so that the
> >>> right-hand side of the equation tag / number is cut off and not shown,
> >>> while the left-hand side margin is shown, which is empty space.
> >>>
> >>> The major difference:
> >>>
> >>> In Skim:
> >>> the font-size is usefully large, but the math display is cut-off, and
> >>> I can see only a portion of it.
> >>>
> >>> In TexShop:
> >>> the tiny font-size allows me to see almost the entire math display
> >>> (except the right-hand tag / number), but it is too small to see
> >>> details of the math symbols. It shows the empty left margin, which is
> >>> a waste of space.
> >>>
> >>> I guess these differences are related to the scale of the pdf display,
> >>> and the screen size.
> >>>
> >>> On a very old MacBook Air 13", that is how I see the pop-up small windows.
> >>>
> >>> At one point, I wrote to Christian of Skim about this problem. But I
> >>> have not been able to figure out whether that can be adjusted, e.g.,
> >>> in the preferences, etc. settings, or if it's part of settings in the
> >>> software of the pdf display.
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>> Roussanka
> >>>
> >>>> If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I’m asking about.
> >>>>
> >>>> I’m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.
> >>>>
> >>>> For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).
> >>>>
> >>>> I’m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop — viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
> >>>> ---
> >>>> Murray Eisenberg murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> >>>> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> >>>> 503 King Farm Blvd #101
> >>>> Rockville, MD 20850-6667
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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